Joseph Rosensteel and Casey Liss join me to talk about Woodstock ‘99, Joe Steels last name, Casey’s Blue is Johns Purple, Inception, Bat Dad, Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow, what it’s like working in effects in Hollywood and lots and lots more.
Also, I have a question for you. Is it, what is your actual surname? Are we allowed to talk about that publicly? Is it Steel, Rosensteel, Rosenberg? >> It's Rosensteel. If you go to my fabulous Twitter bio, which should be the source of anything true in the universe really, it has my full name. Well, no, I'm sorry. It says Joe Rosensteel. I didn't know if that was like comical and ironical and your name is actually Joe Steele or what the situation was. I never got an actual ruling on that. Yeah, no, it was I picked it as a handle because some people had nicknamed me that at work back in 2005 or whatever and but my my name is actually Rosensteel and it's not like a privacy secrecy thing it just is also easier to type than Rosensteil so save a couple letters and syllables but I mean it's just I don't know just there's something about Rosensteil is such a cool last name that's all I can say yeah that's what I'm saying it I mean to me it sounds like you made it up deliberately to sound yeah it's too good to be real it's like is this real but it is well I mean according to Jason Snell it is an obviously fake yeah well he the entire panel of the incomparable was reading back feedback like a year ago for something and they were all making a reference to fletch with dr. Rosen Rosen yeah and it's so they just all blurted out that it was an obviously fake name and he keeps referring to me as fake Joe deal so nice yeah it's a it's a badge of honor I guess to have someone not believe you exist now we believe you exist This is Tangential, an unending conversation where every topic is a tangent from the last. Embrace the chaos. I'm John Chidjy and digressing with me today are Joseph Rosenstiel and Casey Liss. Here we go. I have stumbled upon all of Woodstock 99 on YouTube and it's like I'm back in high school all over and it's magical. It's magnificent. I don't know I don't approve of this. What do you mean you don't approve of this? Aren't you and I roughly the same age? Yeah, yeah, but I'm not, I was not a Woodstock '99 kind of person. Oh neither would, well yeah, but look at the lineup. I mean come on. It's fantastic. I don't even remember the lineup. So look at my website. Vertical Horizon, which I love and I know everyone else hates. String Cheese Instant, I've heard is good but I've not heard much of. Moe, same story. Lit, Buck Cherry, The Roots, James Brown, Jamiroquai, Live, Cheryl Crow, DMX, Offspring, Korn, Bush, Guster, Everclear, Ice Cube, Los Lobos, Chemical Brothers, Kid Rock, Wyclef Jean, Counting Crows, Dave Matthews Band, Alanis Morissette, Limp Bizkit, Rays Against the Machine, Our Lady Peace, Rusted Roots, 7 Dust, Collective Soul, Godsmack, Megadeth, Willie Nelson, Brian Setzer Orchestra, Everlast, Elvis Costello, Jewel Creed, and Red Hot Chili Peppers. How can you say you do not approve of this? What kind of maniac are you? That sounds like a good list to me. Thank you! There's Creed and Everlast and Godsmack I mean and Limp Bizkit. Adding more is bad somehow I don't get um please explain. Well those are not those are not optimum candidates for listening to in my personal opinion. Are you a snob about your musical taste? what do you listen to? Oh no I'm just kidding around I don't really care but I yeah I know I was a huge offspring and corn fan back in the day. I'll see. Less less so now I can't even remember the last time I listened to. Hold on a second there is a device somewhere in my immediate vicinity that made a noise. I I didn't do it. There we go. No, it was the iPad. Sorry. That's right, there's people mowing adjacent to the house somewhere, so you're probably gonna have to hear that the entire episode. And my MacBook Pro tends to scream when it does anything, so you'll probably hear that the whole episode, but that's okay. I like the new font on your site. Oh, thank you. I keep going back and forth. I keep going back and forth about what I want to use. I don't even remember what this is off the top of my head, but I like it. Let me see. What did I end up going with? Jeff, Jeff, something Jeff, a CI, something like that. Oh, that's probably wrong. Yeah, Jeff, a J a f or something. Or? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah. Okay. I dig it. But thank you. So we don't have an agenda here. Our agenda is to have no agenda. Oh, that we could make an agenda if it makes you feel better. No, no. I mean, yes, yes, I would love for it. - The comfort and safety of an agenda. - Okay, right. - No, I'm not, I'm really not that much of a stickler. I was just, you know, just kidding. - Okay, fair enough. - Joke. - Fair enough. - Now it's winter in your crazy forward future land. Is that right, John? - Yes, Casey. Wrong hemisphere, remember? I'm in the back to front hemisphere. I refuse to say upside down because I still stand right side up. So I don't get that, but anyway. - Are you sure? Or is it one of those situations where my blue is your purple, you know what I mean? So you think you're standing right side up, but to me you're upside down. Just like, what if what I call blue, if you could have like a third party adjudicate the different colors, my blue is what you call purple. You know what I mean? - I actually have no idea what you're talking about, but it sounds cool. All I know is that we're all stuck on the same ball and I don't know what else to say. It's a big ball and it's sticky. - Oh God, this is getting worse. - This is meant to be worse, I don't know. Look. - All right, I gotta go. - Oh, no! Five minutes in. I actually hang. - I know, that's it, that's all it took. - Five minutes, 47 seconds. That was the longest one yet. - And it gets worse still. - Of course, actually. We should talk about, we should have a podcast just talking about how we podcast, 'cause that's really cool. Everyone does that. - That sounds like this is the double entendre podcast so far, so. - Oh, geez, I wish people would stop. - You really got the ball rolling on that. (laughing) - Damn it. - Oh man. - Took like 10 seconds. - This is going nowhere. - One in the morning, it took a little bit of time for me to get that one, Joe, but nice one, thank you. But I mean, seriously though, I am kind of over listening to people talking about how they podcast and that it's like, good God, just podcast, just record something, talk to your friends, put it out there. What's the science, what's the mystery? I don't understand. anyway. Didn't you just by making that comment make a meta comment about people who talk about podcasts? Indeed, yes. Just wondering how deep this goes. That's about as deep as it's gonna get on that end because I just... Are we like incepting right now? Now Joe did you not like that movie is that correct? Inception? Yeah. No I like Inception. I am given to understand that certain co-host of a certain other podcast that I am on is not a huge fan. He's the worst. I mean I I wasn't like madly in love with Inception like I don't you know watch it every month or anything like it didn't it didn't wow me that much but I do like it in general there's a lot of stuff in it that doesn't make a whole lot of sense upon closer examination but but I don't really feel the need to like pick it apart like I do some other things. You'd never do that. But you love it, right? I think I heard you say on ATP that you loved it and then John Syracuse hated it. I think that's right. I don't recall what John and Marco's opinions were, but for me, I had seen it like way after everyone else on the planet had seen it. Like, even John in Crazy Upside Down Land had probably seen Inception before I did. And I finally watched it, you know, after it was long on video. This was probably like a year ago. And I sat down, And I tend to like, um, what's the director I've drawn a blank. Christopher Nolan. Thank you. I tend to like Christopher Nolan stuff, but everyone I'd ever spoken to was like, Oh my God, Inception is the best movie ever. You have to watch it. Oh God, whatever. Cause I heard that about Avatar and I hated Avatar. So, uh, I sit down to watch Inception and oh my God, guys, it was the best movie ever. I loved it. I thought it was brilliant. I thought it was great. My wife was, There's still movies that I like more than that one and it's not even my favorite Christopher Nolan movie. I wouldn't say it's my favorite Christopher Nolan movie. But, well you just said it was your favorite movie. I was being a little facetious. Oh. Give me some creative license here. Okay well I was just trying to figure out on this on this scale like how much you're interested in this. I liked Inception a lot. I definitely liked it a I would say as you just did that there are better Nolan movies. In fact, I think Dark Knight Possibly might be my favorite Christopher Nolan movie I think that that film is just phenomenal and I probably shouldn't be talking to you about movies because you're gonna run circles around me with Your unbelievable knowledge of all things movie related, but I loved Dark Knight I don't actually see that many and I but I will say my favorite Christopher Nolan's memento Yeah, you've seen that right? Okay. Yes, but not in a while Yeah, I just like that one because it is unusual and it does have you know It doesn't have a twist in it that if you understand the details of it before you watch it Then you're not as interested in the movie So by now if anybody like looks at the Wikipedia page and then go watch it goes to watch the movie they're not gonna be as wowed by it, I don't think but But I do like that one a lot and my problem with the the Dark Knight ones is Mainly that it gets so So so so serious, but it takes itself a little too seriously sometimes the Christian Bale voice For bad is terrible. It is absolutely terrible angry Batman voice. Yeah Yeah, I mean I like my curly's impression of it when he shouts. Where is the trigger? But which I will not you know attempt to do an impression of Mike early doing an impression of Christian But all right, yeah, um, yeah, that would be a chance. I know but I was thinking the same Yeah, but Yeah, it's it's just comical like it's just a little little far and the fact they did three movies of that And nobody said hey, maybe dial that down a little bit By the third movie now Though I will say that the best thing Arguably to come out of Christian Bale's ridiculous Batman voice is probably Bat-Dad which brings us back to vine What okay I get that That had neither either of you familiar with that dad No, no, oh It's the best. So it's some guy in like Atlanta and He puts on a Batman. Yes. I know now. Yes Yeah, and so he and he talks to his kids as though he's Batman and this is probably the least Compelling description of anything ever but I swear to you. I think it's hysterical and I don't I'm not even a parent yet So at some point we'll check it out. I'm sure that John will put this in the show notes, but it is quite funny Yeah, it is. That's right. I remember this now this went around About I don't know three four weeks ago. I think I became aware of it. It was it was relatively recent I became aware of it. But yeah, so hmm cool. Thanks for the link there too. That's in the chat room. Yeah, I have also dropped a link in there about Bane outtakes, which if you have not seen that I highly recommend watching it and there is a sequel to it. But the sequel is not as good as the first one. It's just dubbing over some of Bane's lines, which is pretty funny. I dare not look at it. Oh, you're good. Go ahead. The other thing that I think is hysterical is honest movie trailers. Have you guys seen these? I've heard of them. They're fantastic. Okay. Actually, let me change the link. I put in the show notes there. There we go. They're basically they do a movie trailer, but the voiceover comments about like how ridiculous it is. So imagine it's a serious movie trailer, but completely honest. And so calling out things, like, I can't think of a great example for a dark night, but calling things out that are so obviously incorrect or inception for that matter, that if you turn your brain on even the littlest bit, you're like, wait a second, that just doesn't add up. And so they call that out in these trailers and they're just hysterical. Cool. I love it. I dare not check any of these links. Sorry guys during the show, because my upload bandwidth is precious. I'm just... Yeah, well, I mean, I can't... I would not be talking if I was watching this. I'm not really that good at multitasking. Yeah, well, it's okay if you got someone on the podcast that just, you know, talks continuously and never stops, but, you know, it's not a show for that, so... Okay, so, John, if you want to, can you talk to me a little bit about car manuals and things that you do and do not like in car manuals and what your opinion of the internal combustion engine is and I'll watch. Car manuals, you're making a reference to some of my tweets yesterday is that right? Yeah I think it was yesterday the day before. Yeah so I'm reading, okay so look I'm reading this thing because I've got to review, that's one of the problems being a senior engineer is you just get, hey can you review this, can you review this, can you review this and you get this pile of crap on your desk you expected to review and oh yeah we need it tomorrow and it's like there's 35 000 words here and you want me to give you a meaningful review and okay i'll get started then anyway so there's this one particularly um i don't know what's the word key happy i don't know they love typing so whatever anyway and they wrote this process engineer wrote this manual on the the gas turbines. And I'm reading through it and it's like, the gas enters the chamber and it's ignited by a blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, are we describing how an internal combustion engine works? I mean, who really cares? It's a gas turbine. Obviously, that's what happens. You know? God, I mean, are we going to... - Wait, so what's the difference between a turbine and a jet? - Well, a jet is a turbine. So a turbine, a jet, a jet specifically refers to a turbine whose thrust is, exhaust is its thrust. Whereas a turbine can be coupled on the shaft to other things. So in this particular case, a turbine's coupled to a gas compressor, but turbines can also be coupled to say an alternator make a generator. So for example, I worked on a diesel gas turbine in my hometown of Rockhampton many years ago. It's been demolished now, which is probably a good thing because it was built in like the late 40s and 50s and anyway it was loud as all hell. But anyway, so 35 megawatts alternator sitting on the back end of that generator on the back of that and it had two diesel-powered jet turbines basically, but technically not jets. But anyway. Really, all this was an excuse for me to bring up suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Wait, I'm sorry, what? You asked for it, Joe. Welcome back, Joe. Is that a technical term? Yeah, sort of. I'm assuming, John, you know exactly what I'm referring to. Oh, okay. So I think this is applicable to both a four-stroke engine as well as a jet, but the general stages of a jet, if I'm not mistaken, are you suck in some air, you squeeze it you have an explosion or just combustion of some sort and then you blow that stuff away so similarly in a four-stroke engine you know as the pistons going up and down it's sucking in intake you know so air and fuel compressing it squeezing it then it ignites it and you can call that a bang although strictly speaking I think in most motors it's not a actual explosion and then blow which is moving the exhaust out of the motor yeah so this This was all just a long way for me to make a really bad joke. - Fantastic. Was it worth it is the question? - No. - Yes. (laughing) - I mean, yes. (laughing) - I don't know who to believe. All right. - We had to do it. - Good God. Fine. Well, there you go. You've gone, you sucked me into talking about that anyway. But look, that's just been what my days have been like in of recent times, 'cause I've been doing a lot of review and not a heck of a lot of actual engineering. So it's been slow going. That's okay. That sounds really exciting. Joe, what have you been doing? I'm sorry? What have you been doing lately? Yeah, Joe. Nothing. What? Podcasting. And that's it, I think. Nothing exciting. Fair enough. So now, your professional situation is that you're kind of like a contract killer. Is that right? Man, that sounds really awesome. But no. I was trying to pump it up. Yeah, no, for a long time I was in a pretty regular position where you go from show to show at a facility, and by show I mean a movie, and it would last like, you know, two to six months depending on the project, and because they were so busy I would always be on the next project, like one after the other. And then they got less busy and so then there were some gaps, and then they got a lot less less busy and so I'm on a much bigger gap at this point but it's kind of nice to have a little bit of a break because I was feeling a little burnt out because usually when you're on one of these shows you're on crunch time so imagine like for the last one to two months of every two to six month long project you're working seven days a week or you know maybe six days but maybe you know 70 hours a week so you can get a little tired. Yeah that doesn't sound fun at all. No but it's rewarding sometimes because you have a finished project that you might like and you know there's always the overtime money which makes it worth it but at a certain point you're just kind of like I just kind of want to lie down for a little bit and I'll just chill out. Fair enough. Now if you worked on, of all the projects that you've worked on, would you say more than half were enjoyable movies? Like leave aside the actual work you were completing. Was the movie itself something that you'd enjoyed or were you working on like total crap buckets most of the time? I don't think I should characterize anything I worked on as a total crap bucket but I will say that the things that I liked working on did not always mirror the quality of the finished product the finished film so sometimes a project would be fun but the film might not be that good or a project might be a total nightmare and then the film would be better so it's not really it doesn't really relate to the experience in that part and really the the only thing I would say that really sticks out is like my favorite thing because I'm not gonna say what my least favorite was but the only thing that sticks out as my favorite thing would be working on Watchmen just because I got to do a lot on that one but not a lot of people like that movie because I don't know if you would like that movie very much it's it's a little weird it is a Zack Snyder superhero movie and so if you are expecting certain things out of your superhero movies you might not have it delivered to you but but I really like it what else is he doing? 300 man of steel I didn't see man of steel I did see 300 and thought it was way overrated I thought it was okay yeah I haven't seen either. And then he's going to be doing the Superman Batman one. So yeah. Apparently Justice League as per IMDB. Oh I didn't know that I forgot they announced it. So he has a certain style. So that's all I was like. That's a way of putting it. Now do you interact with the actual directors very much in your day-to-day work or are you like the five steps removed from Zack Snyder? Oh, I'm infinity steps removed. I have nothing to do with any of that. It's basically a job where you have a supervisor over you that supervises a section of whatever the project is and then there's a supervisor above him and then depending on the hierarchy of the production, there might be another supervisor above him, and then eventually that's the director that that supervisor talks to. And then parallel to that you have production, which is producers and coordinators managing the work that's being done, tracking things that are going in and out of not only the facility you're in, but other facilities that you may be working with other vendors. So they have a hierarchy that's parallel to the actual work being done on the artistic side. >> Does that bother you, being so far removed? Does it bother you being so far removed? >> Sometimes it would be nice to be able to get a more direct note. Because it's sort of like telephone sometimes in certain situations where they'll give a note. And then by the time it filters down the chain back to you, it's not really what they meant to say. Or they said something that you might have a question about. Like they might have said something that conflicts with some other note they've given in the past. But you can't ask for clarification because it would have to go back up the chain. So then you have to spit out another version, see what they say to that one, if that is or is not what you thought it was going to be. So it's sort of like that's the only real problem with the remove. I mean, I've met a couple of the directors and sometimes they show up in person. They say, "Oh, thanks for everything." Not directly to me, but to a group. So it's nice. So is there any direct association between what you actually produce and then would the director have any way of knowing that it was you specifically that did that particular sequence? Oh, probably not. don't usually pay attention. What you need to do is put your name in small text at the bottom of the screen or something so that when it comes up and they're previewing it, they know it's you. Yeah, that worked so well on the Lion King. I actually know what you're referring to. Good, good, good. Oh, you don't, you said? No. Someone stuck their name in? Sort of. I forget exactly when it is in the movie, and thankfully Erin isn't listening to this because she would kill me for not remembering. But at one point, I think it's adult Simba, like flops onto the ground and all of these like petals come flying up as a result of him flopping on the ground. And the understanding I had was that the special effects department or subsection or what have you of Disney wrote using these petals for like a few frames, you can see SFX made out by the petals that are like floating in the wind. hopefully you see where this is going. The problem though is that SFX looks disturbingly like SEX and you can't really put the word sex in a Disney movie and so there was this tremendous brouhaha way back when about the fact that the word sex was in The Lion King. Not too dissimilar from the phalluses on the box for The Little Mermaid. So yeah you could do that. Totally. No I don't think I'll be putting sex in a Disney movie. (laughing) - Oh man, that'd be awesome though. I'm just saying. But nevermind. That's just very, it's just fascinating. One of the things that I love about DeFocus, which for those that don't know, who are listening either live or afterwards, is Joe and Dan Sturm's, is that right? Sturm? Strum? - Yep. - Sturm, good. Sturm. - Sturm. It's their podcast, so you're nine episodes in, I think, if memory serves. And it's fascinating as an outsider to get a little bit of an insight into the inner workings of Hollywood from someone who actually has worked on the inside of all of that. So it's kind of a treat being able to talk about it because it's not the sort of thing that I normally get any opportunity to talk to anyone about. So it's very cool. - Oh, thanks, John. I mean, we don't have much insight into the world of Hollywood. We mainly just have some technical babbly stuff that we do. But it is a bit of a niche, I would say, in that there's not really a lot of podcasts that do have a couple of guys on there talking about Nuke Node Graph stuff. So it gives us some peculiar interests, I guess. Stuff that people might not ordinarily hear, but yeah, it's definitely niche. Oh, sure. But I am, of course, in podcast envy of both you and Casey for the long runs you've both had on Pragmatic and ATP respectively, and the amount of work you guys put into those is great, and love hearing your insights. Particularly the, but most of all I think the ATP episode that sticks out in my mind that I like the most would be the one where Casey, Marco, and John broke down feedback that they get and how that makes everybody feel and I thought that was probably one of my favorite little moments even though it was like the last half of that episode. It was like 46 or something? 41, 42 I think. I'm with you on that one Joe. I thought that was a that was brilliant as well because it was so beautifully sort of all the different aspects of it were really well sort of like laid out and it's the sort of thing that I know it's meta and I normally don't like meta but it was good meta and it was really well done so yeah I'm with you on that. Yeah and it's both of your podcasts it's nice to have the technical stuff but I think also it's great to have the personality and that was one of those moments where I thought the personality is really good. Well thank you that's very I really like that one. I echo what John was saying to turn this into total mutual admiration society. Defocused has been very interesting for me because I'm fascinated by the whole movie making business and experience. And I don't really know anyone who is at all even tangentially involved in movie making. I mean I guess the closest you could say is Faith because she kind of does sort of that kind of thing on the side. But no, it's been interesting for me to kind of hear what that's all about. And also it's kind of fascinating to think about what living in and around LA must be like. I have two younger brothers, one of whom lives in Hermosa Beach, and that seems to me to be far enough removed from Hollywood to not really get caught up in that whole rigmarole. And Joe, I don't know where you are in relation to all this, but I don't know, it just, it's, I always find it fascinating because it's so different from my reality, all pretty much all things, California. Well, yeah, California is another planet and within California, San Francisco and Los Angeles are both completely different planets. Um, they're, they're, they're each, uh, full of their own unique weirdness. And even inside of LA, uh, it breaks down a lot. Like you're saying Hermosa is definitely not like the craziness of walking around on the streets of Hollywood proper like the actual neighborhood of Los Angeles called Hollywood. That is a whole nother weird gross planet with garbage all over the sidewalks compared to Mosa Beach and the thing most people don't know is like most of the most of the studios aren't really in Hollywood proper it's referred to as Hollywood but you know Columbia Pictures Sony Pictures is in Culver City Disney and Warner Brothers are both in Burbank as well as DreamWorks and Glendale you know everything's spread out all over the place and they'll each have their own like weird offices somewhere like in Century City or something like that where Fox is so it's it's when a like Paramount I think is the only one that might actually be in Hollywood, although I don't think it's literally Hollywood, like if you looked at it on a map, just because of the way they break down neighborhoods and stuff. And it's over on like Melrose and something. But yeah. Sorry Joe, it is strange because when I was in Los Angeles, and this is back in '97, I think it was '97, yeah, you get this this view that you've got the Hollywood sign up on the hill and you expect everything to be all in that sort of area and it just isn't and that's okay it's just that that's your preconceived notion right is that everything's going to be Hollywood is all in Hollywood and it's you know it's going to be a little bit spread out. I mean I was also surprised when I was there that there were two walks of fame there was the old one and there was the the new one and I was walking along because I literally got off I think it was the 101 I think and I got off on Hollywood Boulevard but well before the Chinese theater and if that's, I mean, that's even what it is. It's still called that, isn't it? Oh god, that's part of the name but it's no longer Grauman's. It's something else in front of it. It used to be Grauman's Chinese Theater is what most people know of it as but it's something else. In the age of political correctness, I'm not sure if I can call it that anymore but you know the place I'm talking about, right? So, I pull over the side of the road, park the car and I start walking and it was the dodgy end of Hollywood Boulevard because it's all the dodgy end of Hollywood Boulevard. I was just about to say. Okay, there's like there's a block, one block either side of that theater and everything is absolutely you know polished and gleaming and brand new and I'm like hang on a minute there's I saw I've already walked on some of these these stars and some of the stars back in a few blocks ago had been cracked and had graffiti on them and I'm walking along to the next block and it's like it was like walking from one neighborhood to the next and it was one block and everything was just shiny and polished and beautiful and perfect and I'm like okay I can tell where the cleaners stopped I'm just you know they're clearly they just they got this area here they're keeping that nice it's it was just blew my mind well they keep the stuff around they keep the stuff around the theater they're nice I think because they usually hold like movie premieres there it's a big tourist attraction that particular building itself but like everything else like just random businesses and stuff I don't I don't think they put the care into it that you would expect but it's it's one of the things people don't envision when they think about Los Angeles and Hollywood and stuff they think it's all like backlots and people like going on sets being made and stuff like that you're just gonna see that around the corner or something but it's pretty much just gross stuff lots of stuff so would you say and I'm really not trying to be funny would you say you enjoy living in the Los greater Los Angeles area or you do do you not care for it because you came from Florida is that right yes yes I am a Florida refugee and I like Los Angeles the weather is fantastic and I'm sure you've noticed that when you were out here John and Gizzy but the it is a very dense area and so it can be very tiring if you choose to travel very often for any reason you'll be in the car for 30 minutes for three miles it can be really obnoxious but I do like the area in general and I'm very used to it now when I first moved out here I was not a huge fan because in Florida while I wasn't a fan of Florida it was my only other frame of reference and so I was like oh you can't you know just drive anywhere and you know there's not like a huge parking lot up front like there isn't like a giant like store or a giant chain of something or whatever but then after a while you start to realize that it's actually better having lots of little mom-and-pop shops and all of that adds a lot more variety and and different stuff to your area because now when I go back to Florida and I look at you know people talk about going out to grab a bite or something like that it's like let's go to CPK it's like no let's let's not do that at all. How much do you miss Publix? I miss Publix a lot and John you probably don't know this but it is a grocery chain in the South region of the United States and they are known for being very prim and proper and clean and nice inside and they have a great deli section with subs and boars head meats and stuff that Casey is a huge fan of according to his sausage love yes thank you for that now whereabouts in Florida were you that I don't know Tampa Florida so that's the that's the little weird dangly Peninsula on the side of the dangly Peninsula on the United States I I'm not joking, look at a map. There's the peninsula that is Florida and then on the side is this little sub peninsula and then a little sub peninsula inside of that sub peninsula. Just like a series of tumors and it's that's where that's where Tampa is located. I asked because my my grandparents live in Boca Raton and that is the Jewish side of my family. I know you're really surprised by that. that. I was shocked to hear you say that. And so I was in a Publix once with them, and this was when I was in high school I believe, and I walked in with my family and my grandparents and we were easily the youngest people there by 20 or 30 years, like my immediate family and I, and the kosher food section was not just an end cap like it is here in Richmond, Virginia. It was an entire section of publics. And for John's benefit and those who aren't from the United States, a lot of traditionally Jewish families from the Northeast, they will have second homes in Boca Raton, Florida, which is on the eastern coast of Florida, a couple hours north of Miami. And so in certain parts of Florida, and Joe you could probably talk more about this, Basically, everyone comes down in late summer, early fall, stays through the winter, because in Florida, it's 80 degrees, and I don't know what ridiculous number that is in Celsius, and then come March or April, when it starts to get really hot, they all leave. And so they're called snowbirds, because they run away from the Northeast for the winter, and then go back to the Northeast for the summer. And it's a very odd and eerie place to be, because rather, think of a retirement community that's the size of a large city, And that's kind of what Boca Raton is. - Yeah. - Yeah, and Tampa itself is not very heavy on the retirees. I mean, there's plenty of old people, don't get me wrong. But it's definitely not like it is in Boca Raton or where I went to school in Sarasota, just south of Tampa on the Gulf Coast. And that is a very heavy retirement focused snowbird community. And it's not, the demographics I would say are more of the waspy northeast people as well as like Ontario license plates it's huge apparently really in Canada I don't know why but but Sarasota is big for that and it's mainly like the this the proper cities in Florida usually have a hey younger or at least more varied set of demographics than the smaller cities like Boca Raton, Fort Lauderdale, Sarasota, etc. Naples. Naples seems to be the, isn't that West Coast, is that right? Yes. Yeah, the Gulf side. Yeah, so it's a, yeah, Naples seems to be the other like super super retirement area. I've never been but I've heard a lot of my friends talk about, you know, grandparents and whatnot that are in Naples and yeah. Now can you try to convince me that Miami isn't a shithole? Good luck. No, uh, John, have you been to Miami? No, I haven't. I'm sorry, but I've known plenty of people from there. I've worked with them closely, and I have never heard a nice thing. I just haven't. I've heard plenty of nice things, but I've never experienced anything nice. I've been to Miami a handful of times. And I say that mostly to get a snicker and to, you know, try to move the conversation somewhere. But I've been a handful of times and people have told me genuinely that it's a great area and like South beach is really fun and blah, blah, blah. But I've tried, and I don't know if I'm going to the wrong sections, but I just don't get it. No, I'm well, okay. I will say this. Uh, I, I, I'm not a huge fan of Miami. Um, it's incredibly hot even by Florida standards, because it's all the way down there at the bottom of the state. So you won't think that it's going to be that much hotter than it already feels like in Orlando or something like that But it's easily at least sometimes five to ten degrees Fahrenheit warmer and The area is kind of a mess it's sort of like Hollywood in some places and there's a wide variety of things to do and see But if you're just coming in as a tourist and you get dropped down kind of like in Los Angeles you might wind up in some of the You might wind up not knowing what it is. You want to do that would fit best with what you feel like doing You you might be in an area where? Like in South Beach where you're gonna be walking around a lot and it's going to be very tourist heavy And you're not really going to see much of any kind of culture or at all It's just going to be all restaurants focused specifically on tourists, which means every place is going to have something that is just touristy, trape stuff. And there is a rich culture there of Cuban food that you're probably not going to experience along that strip of land where everything is just sort of like the generic watered down American stuff that appeals to other American palates. But you know, that's the most I'll say. I'm not a huge fan of the area but it's not that bad. I'd like to go again because I don't know that I've been since I've been like 20 years old so it's been almost 15 years now I think but again I've heard good things but a couple times I've been I never enjoyed it. Now did you go to Disney a lot? How far was Disney from Tampa? It's like an hour and a half. How did you not live there? I would live there if it were me. Well, it's unaffordable, but leaving that aside, I wouldn't live there. - I was gonna say, it's incredibly expensive. So there's that cost prohibitive part. The traffic, like I said, an hour and a half. That is if there is not a horrible accident on the one interstate freeway that takes you from Tampa and Orlando back and forth, I-4. It is, you might wind up in the car for three or four hours. But the Orlando is expensive and very focused on Disney and very focused on Universal Studios. And it can be fun to visit, but I would not want to live there. It is a little too much going on. - Oh yeah, when I said live there, I just mean I would be going to Disney like every weekend if I had the money for it, which nobody does. - I mean, there's a lot of people that get the, there's like a Florida resident discounts and year passes that you can get where you pay for one trip or something like that to the park and then they give you a whole year out of it for free. If you go during certain times of the year in order to get that deal. I never did that. But I did know people that did and they were really into going as often as they possibly could. - Yeah, we got the same kind of deal here 'cause we've got three, four, we got four theme parks, big ones, some of the biggest in Australia on the Gold Coast. So it's about an hour's drive south of Brisbane And so we've got Movie World, which is basically a Universal Studios knockoff. And then you've got Sea World, which is again a Sea World in San Diego knockoff, except less good. And I've been to both, I can say that with authority. So anyhow, and we've also got Dream World, which is my favorite, although some of the rides get a bit old and break down quite regularly. And then you've got Wet 'n Wild, which is a water park. So you can buy the three parks passes, which is all three of those except Dreamworld and that time of year. And it's about one and a half entries worth in terms of price, but then you get tickets for 12 months. Or you can do the Dreamworld one. They recently opened their own little white water world sort of mini version of wet and wild. And you can get there, they call it a two parks pass, which is kind of laughable 'cause it's really technically still Dreamworld. So it's like really whatever, but anyhow. So anyway, I think the effect of "I live somewhere so I'm not going to go see the attraction" I'm not sure what the name of that is, but it's definitely a thing. When I lived in Sydney for example, I said to myself, "I'm going to go up Sydney Tower, I'm going to go to Taronga Zoo, I'm going to go to Luna Park." Never went to any of them. I lived there for seven months and I had the opportunity to go there. I lived there, it was all, you know, it was cheap accommodation and everything, jump on the train, the ferry, wherever. And what did I do? I didn't go to any of them. like, "Oh, God." So then I... That's like my gym membership. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. That's why I don't buy... Now, John, have you ever been to Disney World? Or Disneyland, for that matter? Yes, yes, Disneyland. Absolutely. Yeah. So in '97, I was working at Nortel in Calgary, and I got in a car and had three weeks. I worked up some time riding in Pearl on the Good God anyhow never mind point is that I went for a three-week drive around the western part of North America So I drove from Calgary out to Vancouver down the coast of San Diego into Vegas and to the Grand Canyon And then up through the guts through Yellowstone back up to Calgary again, so in three weeks Which is insane half the time was driving that sounds That is really impressive. Yeah, I would love to do that. I truly honestly it was awesome I just wish I had chosen my travel partner a little more wisely, but never mind that. I'm not going there. But the point is, yes, I did. When I was in LA for three days, I think, or so, I did Universal Studios, I did Disneyland, obviously, the Anaheim one. I took in Hollywood Boulevard and Santa Monica and Rodeo Drive and some of those other little hot spots. I wanted to go to Six Flags at Valencia, but unfortunately my traveling frustration companion was not interested because there was roller coasters and whatever. So anyhow, I'm a bit of a roller coaster-aholic if that's a thing, I guess. Sure. I was just gonna ask, like as an engineer, does it ever bother you, like being on a roller coaster and then like you're watching all of the little nuts and bolts just to make sure that nothing's well everything's as I will I will I will say one thing when I go to the to the local shows and and so on like the the well, it's not a circus, but you know like the Don't know what they call it in it like a like a county. Yeah Yes, yes that sort of thing Sorry, I was trying to think of the North American equivalent but yes that and you go there and there's a Ferris wheel and you look at the Ferris wheel and there's a hub and on the hub of the Ferris wheel you see weld on top of weld on top of weld on top of weld and they're all rusting and you're like I'm not gonna get on that I don't think. Whereas these theme parks have got safety inspectors they're audited all the time there's lots and lots of you know maintenance and stuff is done regularly on them because they have to to maintain their license. Whereas these things that travel around you know the the guy that they pull the Ferris wheel down like oh there's a bit of a crack there get out the get out the oxy cut a bit weld a bit. Yep, she's all good. And it's like I look at that and I'm like, "I'm not getting on that." It's almost scarier going on a Ferris wheel at a county fair than it is to go on a roller coaster at a theme park. >> Wow. >> I can understand that. Now, Joe, I assume you've been to Disney World many times and also Disneyland a handful of times? >> I've never been to Disneyland. >> Oh, this whole train of conversation just got derailed. Thanks for that. >> [laughs] I ask because I've been to Disney World a handful of times. In fact I was just there, actually I think to the day a year ago, and I've been to Disneyland once and the difference between Disneyland and Disney World is incredible because Disneyland is like one-tenth of Disney World. That fraction is surely incorrect but it feels that way because Disneyland is just in the middle of Anaheim, isn't it? Yeah and Disneyland was obviously the first park and there's not enough land for them to build out to anything like the scale that they were able to get in Florida. Walt Disney was able to go in and buy up a gigantic area of swamp and then dredge it and and make land for himself so he could run this whole like huge area which is why Disneyland all of it fits inside of the parking lot of the Magic Kingdom in is that true component yeah that is yeah it's teeny tiny it's a big pocket I imagine it's better now than it used to be but finding your car could be a little hard. Because also in a in terms of like theme park stuff, Disney World was fine but as a teenager the only thing that was like cool was Space Mountain and Star Tours and they were inside of two different parks so you you couldn't go to both you could only go to one depending on what your family was doing at that time because we didn't usually go for like the three-day pass or whatever where you go to the three different parks. And then Epcot was actually kind of dull back then because it was sort of before they had revised some of the things. There were still some cool things from when they had originally opened but you could tell it didn't have the care and love that the Magic Kingdom had. And in addition to that there was the Universal Studios Park which was fine but it was also starting to show its age and they had opened up Islands of Adventure which was a companion park to that one because there's just so much land that they were able to do this and that is huge and so Universal Studios there is also bigger than Universal Studios out in Los Angeles this was the one that John went to and there's no way they can make that one any bigger it's not going to have as many rides or as much stuff as Islands of Adventure or Universal Studios in Florida is going to have. And then there's always Busch Gardens in Tampa, Florida, which is kind of lame. And then... That's funny you say that because we have a Busch Gardens about an hour east of me and Williamsburg. Yeah, the Williamsburg. Yeah. And so we have Busch Gardens an hour east of Richmond and we have King's Dominion, which is a sister park of Kings Island in Ohio, which I know means nothing to you two. But anyways, Kings Dominion is kind of like the rundown, not that awesome one, even though I really enjoy it, and it's only half an hour north of us. But everyone loves Bush Gardens, which again is an hour east of us, and swears that it's in the area anyway, it's the best thing in the world. And so it's funny how different our two, you know, areas were in so far as you're snubbing or thumbing your nose at Bush Gardens. And probably justifiably, I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but it's funny because what you're saying is kind of crap to us was the best thing you could do in the area. - Oh, sorry. I didn't mean that to sound quite so bad. It's fine. It's just not as, Islands of Adventure, I will say is better. It has more interesting rides, I think, than Bush Gardens. Bush Gardens does have a lot of roller coasters. So John, you would just be ecstatic about the place. But, and there's a wide variety of different kinds of roller coasters, tandem ones, inverted tandem ones, all kinds of stuff. Um, but, uh, it usually was just a mess because of lines, uh, to get on things. Um, like you just would spend most of your time just waiting in Florida heat. So it was not a super fun experience, um, even though it was in Tampa. So it was the easiest one to get to. And then I worked at an aquarium in Tampa, Florida, which was really lame. - Did it have any dancing penguins in it? - No, they did have a sign with a dolphin on it, but no dolphins in the aquarium. - There were no dancing dolphins, dancing penguins, no foot tapping, no wobbles, nothing. - Nothing like that. It was all like, it was all native Florida wildlife for the most part. but all small native Florida wildlife. So no, nothing. - Manatees? - Nothing so big. - No manatees? - No manatees, nothing. Nothing. There was literally nothing. And so they're used to, but they used to have the dolphin on the outside and on the billboards and stuff like that because people wanted to see that, even though they didn't have it there. But they justified that by having something called Dolphin Quest, which is a boat ride that would take you out into the Tampa Bay to look at dolphins just jumping through the water. And then the boat would turn around and come back. That was the justification for advertising dolphins everywhere. - Nice. - Well, that's the kind of place I worked at. - Dolphins are cute. Kind of. - No, they are. No, I think they are. I actually, in a past life, and this relates to John, the podcast you and I did a while back. When I was working for the defense contractor, I actually took a ride on a destroyer. Did we talk about this in the show? I don't remember. - Yeah, we did, yeah. - And so that was out of Jacksonville. And as we were leaving the bay, the port, whatever, I was on the deck of the boat and I look over and sure enough, there's dolphins. I'm not trying to be funny. Isn't the technical term humping? Is that right? Like breaching the water and then falling back in? - I don't think that's the word for it. (laughing) - I didn't. - It's okay. That's just me being ignorant because I would have said it in a much more funny way if I thought I was being funny. Anyway, the point is they were, you know, popping out of the water, popping back in. They ride the pressure wave. And it was just like wild, wild dolphins. And it was, it was really cool to see. They ride the pressure wave from the boat. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Oh yeah. Um, there's, uh, there's some reason that they do it, but, uh, uh, and, uh, anyway, but yeah. So. I found whale surfacing behavior unfortunately has a you in it. Boo! Yeah and so definitely not humping. Definitely not that. Then I made that up. I wish I could tell you that. I mean now let's retroactively, what is it retcon or something? The movie, the literature term? We'll retroactively correct it to mean that I was making a joke. Or something. Okay, that's all good. It's fine. But yes, in any case, SeaWorld locally, they've got lots of dolphins. In fact, it's on their emblem as well. But yeah, I mean, and we've got these things called dugongs, which is kind of like a manatee basically. So anyhow, but apparently they are. Now speaking of aquariums and things like that, did Sydney go batshit crazy when Finding Nemo came out? (laughing) Wally P Sherman, 90s. - Yeah, yeah. - Walibur, Sydney. Anyway, you'd think I'd know having watched that movie multiple times with my kids that I would remember the address. I know it's Wallaby Way. But anyway. - Right, right, right. - I don't think especially so necessarily. I'll do tell you one, I'll tell you one thing though. The Fox studios in Sydney started doing big ticket movies movies for a while where the exchange rate was favorable. There's a lot of hoo-ha about Hollywood being very upset about the situation, doing this sort of stuff in Australia. It's like, "Oh, you're taking jobs away from us." It wasn't exactly positive energy there, but still. One of the first big movies that was made in Australia was The Matrix. The funny thing is if you have a look and I went to see it actually first time I saw The Matrix was in Paramatta Westfields cinema complex and which is part of the shopping center in Paramatta. I was around the corner from where I lived in. I lived in Granville back in 2000s was no this is 99 it was mid 99 it was anyway anyway so yes I went to this thing and you're sitting in the theater and they Neo and Morpheus you know they're in the training simulator And he's like, welcome to the desert of the real. And the background and the backdrop is a city that's been demolished. But you can clearly see from the skyline that it's Sydney. The Sydney skyline demolished. And everyone in the theatre goes, yeah, Sydney. Oh, my God, seriously. I'm unfortunately serious. Yes. And I'm sitting there thinking I'm not clapping, but yeah, OK. So, I'm just saying, hey, it was just some of them. was their big moment yeah well I mean that's I would rather have a moment in the matrix even if the city is destroyed then have a moment in the Punisher movie with with Thomas Jane where they filmed the whole thing in Tampa so you had the bright sunny Tampa skyline for your horrible dark movie about a brutal killer so it was incongruous but but I would much rather have had the Matrix experience. Well we'll always have the Matrix. Yeah I love the original Matrix I remember liking the second one and hating the third one with all every ounce of my being. Yeah the third one was a bit rough. What's your stance on the three Matrix movies then? One, two and three, love, hate? We haven't we haven't discovered it and we haven't discussed it and I like the first one a lot I think that was a good movie and then I don't like the second one and I hate the third one yeah no one wants the third one the second no well it was completely unsatisfying yeah it was just a total mess the first one was good but the problem was when they went to do the second one they knew they were gonna make a third one so the second one is mainly just as a lead-up to the third one where the first one didn't have that problem. Yeah true. The first one was self-contained and so in the second one they had to reset a lot of things that were from the first one where like oh his his powers and abilities need to be dulled down to like nothing and be inconsistently represented through the movie and then there's a bunch of random chases and all kinds of nonsense gets introduced for yeah and religious symbolism that spans the next into the next one it's it's all very they very much had their heads up their asses when they were trying to come up with the story for the second and third one and I don't think that was the problem with the first one and I find the first one to be far superior had the Wachowski brothers done anything else that's notable since then? Yeah. Oh, since? Well, they did the Speed Racer movie. I never saw that. Was that any good? No, I don't recommend seeing that one. I worked on it. I don't have a credit for that one, but that... it's not good. And then, you know, they had they were producing V for Vendetta but I don't but they actually had their like I think it was like their second AD assistant director from the Matrix movies was actually the one directing it but they kind of had a heavy hand as producers I actually really liked I really liked me for brilliant yeah I love that movie it was awesome mm-hmm and I'm trying to think although I do wonder if you got here for you know weaving actually got paid less because essentially he did a cartoon role because you never saw his face you only ever heard his voice oh I am sure he got paid more because he was Hugo we know and at that at that point he had already been agent Smith well yeah but he wasn't wearing a dress and drag or anything but you're thinking of Priscilla Queen absolutely what else was Hugo weaving in that Matt oh yeah the Matrix sense right yeah yeah yeah just a little he was in there and he was also that too and he was the he was the jerk dog in babe oh yeah I think you might have been yeah but I did I know that it's been a few years since I've seen babe and thankfully my kids haven't discovered it so hopefully it will be oh I love that move yeah it's got it's got the cute factor sure but you know whoa Apparently one of the Wachowski brothers is now self-identifying as a woman. Yes. I did not know that. Wow. I'm behind on my gossip too, Casey. I didn't know that either. I don't know. I had no idea. Well, that's kind of cool. Huh. Well, how about them apples? So I guess I'm inadvertently insulting people by calling them the Wachowski brothers. Well, no, they're still brothers. Well, technically. Genetically. Well, no, but it's better to just call them the Wachowskis. Yeah, I think you're right Joe, what's wrong with that? Yeah, let's just call them the Wachowskis, no further designation required. We can call them both the Matrix Ruiners still. Yeah, they make something great and then they destroy it, and therefore it's their fault at the same time for both things. Yeah, but I'm looking at this Wikipedia page and I'm not seeing anything jump out at me as something that they've done since The Matrix that has been notable. Outside of, like you said, their involvement with Speed Racer, which I heard was meh and you said was no good, and V for Vendetto, which at least the two of us liked. Did you like that one, Joe? It was fine. It wasn't my favorite movie ever. I thought it really had some big problems with some story things and pacing was a little strange where there was a lot of Awkward pauses He says I was gonna say that was Ironically delivered, but yes last oh dear just um Wary the fact that this is becoming defocused episode number 10 The which yeah, it's not entirely a bad thing One things I wanted to ask you guys about is what what what's the deal with all the damn emoji? Cuz you guys like emoji Kings and shit like used emoji each other That's our special relationship John and it's none of your fuck shit. All right finals. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding No, I don't know I just I never I always thought emoji was silly early on when like only the the Teens and tweens were doing it and then I guess I'm old and so I caught on late I don't know and it just I find it. It's an amusing challenge to try to represent what I'm thinking with either a couple of emoji or Occasionally with a series of emoji like I'm not writing freaking Moby Dick like somebody did many somebody's someone did that but There's emoji dick. No shit. Holy crap. Really Wow. Yeah And I think you can buy, if memory serves, this was discussed on IRL Talk way back when, but in fact, I might've been geek Friday at the time. But anyways, they wrote, I think they crowdsourced the book and they have a couple, or they had a couple of different versions. One was, I think, just emoji, and one was like emoji with plain English translation. - Right. - But I don't know, I just, I find emoji and animated GIFs a fun and interesting way to express myself that's more colorful. and I mean that both figuratively and literally, than just words. I don't know, what do you think, Joe? - I'm on the same page. I initially sort of thought they were silly and childish. - Yep. - And it was sort of like an ironic use at first, but then it's fun. It's just fun. - Yeah, I think that the problem is for me, I don't have an issue with emoji. I just, I think that my emoji vocabulary is not as extensive as either of yours. And as a result, I am under utilizing that vocabulary. But anyway, look, I totally do agree that it gives you more, you can convey more about how you feel using the right emoji than you can just with words. 'Cause words are easier to misinterpret, I think. But yeah, I started out in the same place as well, where I just didn't, I was like shrug, yeah, okay, it's what the cool kids are doing, whatever. But if that's, if that, sorry, I'm distracted by the chat room a little bit. But anyway, the point, I'm not gonna say that. I have to stop saying that. I'm getting the shits for saying that. There is no point. I'm not gonna start with the point. I'm gonna stop there. All right. - I have no idea what you're talking about. - I'm really confused. - Yeah. - Yeah. - God, I needed emoji to explain that. That's where I went wrong. - Well, why don't you read them Siri style? (laughing) - A smiling pile of poop. - I don't know. Right, exactly. Because if you ever have, if you receive a text message and you have Siri read it to you, it'll be like, "I'm on my way home." Heart, or face with hearts for eyes. - Yeah, that's it. - Or something like that. It's the most weird and awkward translation in the world. - It does, it sounds bizarre. There's a, I've got to put a link in the show notes for this one, but my son, of course, bless him, my nine-year-old son, found this YouTube video a while ago entitled A Smiling Pile of Poo, which was a song constructed entirely from sounds made by the iPhone and Siri speaking different things. So, and yeah. So, the funny thing was it actually wasn't that bad. It was a pretty- I didn't mind it, but anyhow. Yeah, somebody remixed, what is it, Marimba? The kind of default iPhone ringtone, and remixed it into something that's actually extremely catchy and enjoyable. I don't know if either of you saw that. This went around maybe three or four months ago. - No, I didn't come across that one, but. - I'll see if I can dig it up, but no promises. - Siri is weird though. It's possessed sometimes, I swear. 'Cause I'll do a search, I did a search in Safari, and I'll do a search on how long do I cook a poached egg, you know, something like that. You know, this happened like a few weeks ago when I was getting into learning how to cook poached eggs. So yeah, okay, I learned that late in life, but nevermind. The point, no. I was searching in Safari and then I went and set a timer for three minutes and set time three minutes, it says, okay, setting a timer for three minutes. Don't overcook those eggs. And-- - Is that really what it said? - That's what it said and I'm like, try as I might, I have tried to repeat it because I didn't get it because normally I do a screen dump and I tweet something like oh That's really cool. You know, but I've tried to repeat that and it will not repeat it And I'm like you son of a bitch you only did that once That's ripped off But it was it was cool. That's pretty cool though. So hats off to Apple for doing doing something like that. That was really cool Alas, and you said you you had already asked Siri for I had not egg related - No, I hadn't asked Siri for it. I just, I was searching in mobile Safari on my iPhone and then I followed up with a Siri request to set a timer 'cause I always use Siri to set a timer 'cause it's just quicker than opening up the timer, spinning the damn wheels, you know. So yeah, it does sound a little bit, and to tweak with a four in it in the chat room says it sounds more like an Android feature. It does actually. It sounds like, hang on a minute, Apple, get out of my kid, right? But I mean, all the facts are there. the fact that I typed it in Safari, there's a search, it can put two and two together and figure it out. But that sort of level of pattern matching, if you want to call that AI or not, technically, maybe it isn't, but you know, it's still pretty impressive. It just shits me that I can't repeat it. It's not repeatable. So maybe, well, yeah, yeah. You don't know if it was just coincidental and just like a tongue in cheek thing that they didn't realize. It was written, it was written, perhaps it was written such that anytime you ask for a timer of three minutes, one out of a hundred times, that'll say, don't overcooked those eggs, you know, wink. Um, and that's the thing is not to turn this into like ATP or something, but it's interesting that your first, um, your first inclination was not necessarily, or at least the impression I got was that your first inclination was not that it was like snooping you and trying to figure out, oh, he just searched for eggs. He must be cooking eggs, blah, blah, blah. It was just, you know, a kind of funny coincidence. Whereas I think if it was a Google phone, my first inclination would be, oh my God, they're stalking me. - Yeah, that's it. - And that may not be reasonable, but it just shows you like the difference in tone from the two companies. - Yeah, a lot of people don't see Google that way, but in our space, in our little bubble that we all seem to live in, I don't mean that disrespectfully, but in our tech little bubble, definitely Google's seen that way. And some of the stuff that Google now, I've seen different people and read different reports about stuff, 'cause I'm not speaking for first-hand experience. Truth is that some of the stuff that it comes up with, Google Now, can be kind of creepy, that it knows that you've got off a plane and you wanna find a taxi or there's a few other little odd things. It's sort of, it's very good at putting two and two together and coming up with a reasonable prediction about what you wanna do next. And that's, it feels a little bit, it crosses a line from convenient to creepy, I guess, a little bit. Yeah, it's weird. It's a very fine line and I'm not even sure where it is in my own head. I don't have anything to contribute, unfortunately. I do not have a phone that can run Siri. What? Oh, I'd forgotten about that. We don't need to shame you again. I'd forgotten that. So are you planning on getting... That's why I was just being quiet. Are you planning on getting a 6 or whatever when it is released this fall? Yeah. Well, I don't really think it's viable to even pretend that the 4 will continue to function at this point. So I will get something. I have no idea what they're going to wind up announcing in terms of the array of different devices. So I can't say for sure what it will be. But definitely something new for sure. Definitely running iOS or no? Oh, yeah. I've invested too much in my collection of random Apple stuff for me to jump ship and go to go to Google And yes, I also find Google creepy. So I'd much rather have the Avis Windows phone. Come on. I I don't think that's any more viable than keeping my iPhone 4 Love the parallel nice Now do you use did you do use an act Let me try that again. Did you use a Mac for work, Joe, or did you use some like Silicon Graphics machine or just some PC or? Oh, no, it's just, you can buy workstation PCs from HP or Dell or whatever. And I worked at one place where it was Linux, which is kind of the standard at big places. And then I've worked at a small place where it was Windows, which was why I suddenly was in the world of Microsoft Office and Link and all of that bullshit that I couldn't stand. Yeah, it's the worst. Well, it's better on Windows, but it's still pretty damn bad. That's right. So what do you know, do you remember what flavor of Linux it was or flavors? Different ones, but generally everything with for visual effects stuff is centered around some flavor of Red Hat Linux. It's not Debian or something like that. usually just for software compatibility because things like Autodesk Maya and stuff like that, they have Linux versions of that software. That all tends to be Red Hat compatible stuff is what they recommend. So it's usually like CentOS or Fedora or something like that. But it's not like any secret proprietary thing. And the whole reason why they use Linux, of course is because they used to use Silicon Graphics, which was Irix, and then everybody bailed on that because that company went down in flames. So I missed the whole... Oh, is that not a thing? I think it's like a holding company for garbage now, or they make supercomputers or something. But they don't make workstations like they used to. That was like their claim to fame in the 90s, they had these incredibly expensive Silicon Graphics workstations. And I even knew somebody in college who had bought one, but that was right when the company was going down. So it didn't really make a lot of sense. But he had a Silicon Graphics O2 workstation, and it would have, like, an insane ability to do things, but it was very specific and focused on a particular task. But because of its expense, because it was very custom, it was cost prohibitive for studios who needed more flexibility, which you can get with Linux, but then you also have to manage drivers and you'll have weird compatibility things and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. Do you care for using Linux, at least in a work setting, or did you hate it? It was fine. I used KDE, not GNOME, and it was okay. I mean, it's a little weird and quirky, but most of the time, everything that you do is very focused on nested directory structures. So you're not doing navigation like you would on a Mac where you'd be clicking through stuff in the Finder. You're doing stuff where you're typing on the command line to go to places, like either alias directories or you're CDing into directories, just 'cause that is easier, 'cause then you can also copy and paste different things, make new strings for another set of directories you need to go into. Because it's all like a heavily tokenized kind of thing to organize your data. So that didn't bother me at all. And I got used to that pretty quickly from being on Windows when I was in school, which I couldn't wrap my head around why you can just like open things and click on things as easily as you could on other platforms. And I have to say that even with like the latest version of KDE, it's still like bizarro. Like it doesn't make any sense when you compare it to where Windows is or where Mac is in terms of some of the peculiarities of how they have things rigged up to function. So it's never going to be the year of the Linux desktop, in my opinion. Yeah, never. Damn right. It will never happen. I'm full of, I'm really shitty with Linux at the moment to be perfectly honest because I've been I set up CentOS to run Tech Distortion on DigitalOcean about six months ago and yeah, that was fine But when it's come to doing this, the live streaming I've been trying, because like I said earlier on my bandwidth, upload bandwidth is very precious because there's not a hell of a lot of it Well, my concern was that I've got a Skype call running and if I were to use something like Nicecast and just stream that up to a Nicecast 2 instance running on CentOS, let's say, on the same server as the website, then the problem would be that I've got two streams going at the same time. So it would be better in terms of bandwidth consumption for me to put all of it out on a VPS. So in essentially Skype into, in this case, a fourth party. a fourth party, which would then mean that you'd only have that one connection and do all of the streaming direct through a bridge within the audio of the VPS directly to IceCast and then you wouldn't need an IceCast at all. And that seemed to be a great idea. Unfortunately, it's proven fucking impossible to actually do because as of version 4.3 of Skype for Linux, Microsoft in their, what is it called, Embrace Extend Extinguish or whatever the fuck, that cycle. It's at the, okay we're going to have to shaft people or something, anyway. So it's a shafting phase and they stripped out support for, I think it was Alsa Audio and they've just gone entirely with Pulse Audio. And on version 4.2, I'm That's fine. Okay. I'll just download 4.2 right sure so I go and do that and Can it ensure enough yes the audio devices? They all connect up and I can go through in their DJ console and it connects up to ice cast and it was it was Ready to work. I try and fire up Skype says can't log in And I'm you're fucking kidding me you bastard So of course what a Microsoft done because they just went through recently and got the broom and cleaned out all the old versions I heard Mike Hurley complaining before that 2.8 doesn't work anymore. 2.8 Skype for the Mac doesn't work anymore 'cause it won't connect. So it's like, okay, you know what, F this, I'm done. I just wanna, putting Icecast on is so easy, it's not funny. So, you know, it's really just that. And now I've ended up just biting the bullet, going with an Icecast, but, and it's working. It's working okay. So I just need to make sure I don't load anything 'cause I loaded something earlier on on the podcast on a webpage on a link and it killed the, it killed NiceCast for about five seconds. So there you go. - How bad is your internet? - It's ADSL one, which is, so it's supposedly eight meg down and 1.5 up, but it's not actually 1.5 megabit up. It's actually 384K up. That's kilobits per second, not kilobytes. - Wait, what year is this? - Yeah, it's where I choose to live, man. I mean, if I could get the new national broadband network, I'd be having, you know, like 40 megabit a second, no problem. Or if I was living close to telephone exchange, I could get ADSL too, but I live in the sticks. I live in an acreage out in the middle of nowhere and I'm behind a RIM. And a RIM is Telstra's name for a line concentrator. So with a RIM, what they do is they run a high density fiber optic to your, from the exchange out to the RIM box. And then that RIM box, which sits by the side of a register, just a cabinet, nothing special. It then fans that out to hundreds of different subscribers. And it works in theory that let's say you got a hundred subs well, you're never gonna get more than 80 people, let's say on the phone at the same time. Therefore it multiplexes them, but it's designed to be under provisioned. So unfortunately, yeah, I'm kind of stuck. And for a while there, I couldn't even get ADSL until they put in what they call a port on the rim that does pass through for ADSL and the pass through only supports ADSL one. So what they do is they pass through a certain number of channels, put a slide for ADSL first in best dressed and of course now they're all gone, that's okay. You only get one anyway. So what can you do? Absolutely nothing, unless of course you wanna go with 4G, which is faster, like way faster. 3G is faster than my ADSL 1 typically. But of course that costs, that's dear as poison. So, you know, I get 200 gig quota a month for 40 bucks, 50 bucks or something a month. So the quota is good, it's just the download is shit. And that's my life. I chose to live where I live. I chose to live and this is the price I pay. Oh well. Yeah, I have 75 megabit symmetrical. Yeah, I hate you. And that's fine. I don't hate you. I love you. That's fine. I'm very smug about this because it used to be 75/35 until I sold my soul to Verizon and told them they can enroll me in some BS rewards program and now it's 75 symmetrical and it is magical. Wait, weren't you on the fence about joining the bullshit rewards program? And then I did it and it's awesome. Okay. Never having a strong opinion about anything because you're gonna change it you never know in the next five minutes. You know I was I was very I was waffling quite a bit when I was talking about it on I think the last ATP maybe was the time before. Yeah it was right at the end of it. I was waffling quite a bit and then I think after we wrapped I was like nah fuck it and enrolled and then within about 24 hours it flipped the switch and it's pretty cool gotta say I'm digging it. I mean if I had upload bandwidth there's so many things I'd do differently I mean I could I could consider a Synology I could consider FileTransport I could consider you you know like backblaze and all this shit and I can't I just can't I mean I tried I even tried iTunes match it took a month to upload my library and even then it fucked it are half of it up so I turned that shit off that was a waste of space it just doesn't work on with a connection like this it's just terrible so anyway whinging about my bloody I mean like I said I should complain I chose to live where I chose to live and you're just lucky and it's not fair and oh well so how much land do you have it's it's an ice 4,000 square meters which is exactly one acre. Well, technically one acre is 4,048 square meters, but let's not split hairs. I'm 48 square meters shy of an acre. So. - And what would you say is an average lot size in the, I can't think of a better way to phrase it, but the more civilized section of the town in which you live? - There's a civilized section where the- - Shut up, Joe. - I didn't say anything. - You don't need to, that's the point. Anyhow. - Exactly. - Okay, it's between, it's down to about eighth of an acre to a sixth of an acre is a typical size for a block now. If you're about half an hour out of the CBD, you'll be looking at about-- - Whoa, whoa, whoa, what's a CBD? - Central Business District, so downtown. So if you're about half an hour out of downtown, like driving or bus or train, then probably gonna set you back about 250K. And Australian dollar, US dollars, pretty close. So you probably add about 2 or 3% to that to get US dollars. Oh, sorry, subtract 2 or 3% to get to US dollars. But it's just where I live, I could get, for that same amount of money, I could get a full acre and I wanted the full acre. So there's plenty of room in the yard, plenty. And I'm a good, I don't even know what that is in yards. A yard is 0.9 of a meter, and it's 140 meters front to back. So that's like 180 yards or 160 yards or something front to back of the yard or something like that. I forget. - So is this for the kids or are you like Joe outdoorsman? Or I should say John outdoorsman. - John outdoorsman, yeah. 'Cause that Joe outdoorsman would be the other Joe. Anyhow. - Exactly. - I'm definitely not that. - You live in LA, man. (laughing) But no, I'm not really, I am an outdoors kind of person from like my childhood. I grew up near bushland. I used to go bushwalking all the time. you know, or hiking I should say for North American listeners. But the point is I just, I like the space and I think it's a nicer environment to bring the kids up. So I guess, yeah, it's probably more about the kids. Five bedroom house, slab on ground, no stairs. I grew up in a two-story house and we had that many accidents, mishaps on the stairs. So I'm a great fan of single-story houses. But of course that needs a bigger block. So it's sort of, yeah, it all sort of leaned that way. Do your kids like being in the boonies or do they hate it? They love it. Yeah, they love it. And we've got them going to a nice school now. They were going to a somewhat less nice school recently, but we've sort of moved them to a better one. So, you know, it's the whole public versus private thing here. And you know, the public schools say that they care, but they just don't have the money to be able to care. and it's a shame because you can see it on their faces, right? When you're talking about the problems, they know the problems. It's their power to fix it because they've just got nothing. They've got, you know, whereas the school we're going to now, it's hurting my hip pocket a lot, but you know what? The kids are so much happier. So, and all the kids going to that school are from the same sizes of sorts of places. So they've got, you know, it's all very spread out. So the kids are sort of come from very wide area 'cause we're further out. Whereas before they were closer to a town, a much bigger township. So yeah, different demographic, different, very different. Anyway. - So Casey, you started looking around for what pre-K. - That's it, start planning now. - No, no, no. No, we're just trying to make sure we get the bedroom squared away before he or she actually arrives. So, that's really, that's what we're working on. And we'll worry about everything else afterwards. Fair enough. It's been bad. We're slacking. In fact, I need to go continue that process soonish. But what were you going to say, John? I was just going to say, how far out is Erin now? She is, we are recording in the middle of August and she is due early, early, early November. So we have what, two and a half months? She just started her third trimester. - Okay, so two thirds of the way there. - Yep, and we, from the looks of our house, we are completely ill-prepared. And I'm telling myself that we actually are prepared. It just doesn't look like it, but the reality of the situation is probably that we're just not prepared. - Well, the thing is when they're little, before they start crawling, you've got a bit of breathing room in terms of sharp corners and connectors and everything. And Norm in the chat room says that you are never prepared the end. That's true, but you know, there's better prepared and there's completely unprepared. So let's just run with that. And so, but when I start crawling around, things get a bit more serious and you're like, well, you kind of things dangling. Cause I'll just, you know, try and pull themselves up on it. And if it's a tablecloth and there's knives on it from the meal that was just there and oh my God. Yeah. Then you start freaking out about that. And then they start walking around and then it's gone. Then it's on for young and old. And it's funny, because we had our house with gates up for a while to keep the kids out of areas. So we had areas that we simply couldn't like the study. You try and childproof a study with filing cabinets and bookshelves and all the computers and everything, good luck. And kitchens, that's easy. You put latches on the drawers and all that other good stuff. And I had a friend in the house just visiting and he sort of You know, so I fold his arm and says, you know, when I was growing up, we didn't have any of these things in our house. We just were told not to go in those drawers. Now, he had no kids, right? And I'm thinking, I wonder if you remember when you were three years old or two years old. Do you remember that? Do you remember pulling the knife out and waving it around saying, look, mommy, I've got a knife? You know, do you remember that really? Because, of course, then they have since then had kids and lo and behold, they've got all the same stuff at their place. Funny that. Yeah, funny how that is. Yeah, I don't know. We'll figure it out one way or the other, but we certainly have plenty of stuff left to do. And not that much time to do it. Nah, three months is plenty of time. Besides, this is the uncomfortable trimester, so... Yeah. I mean for Erin, more so. Although you will feel her pain. She will make you feel it. Well, she's been very... I know you're being silly, but she's been very good about that so far. She's not really had any cravings, not really been a complainer, so... And yet another reason why she's the better person of the two of us. But I don't know. Now we've made Joe completely go to sleep. Hello, Joe. No, I just... Like Siri, I have nothing to contribute to this conversation. Do you have any dogs or anything, Joe? Anything like that? No, no, no. No interest? No. No interest in children. Maybe a dog, but also not really feeling it at the moment. I don't actually like children. That's... Oh! On a count of... They're just loud. They're loud and they're awful. And they... That's fair. Would be a handful and they want to do things and I just... I can't manage that situation. They can be somebody else's problem. How old are you Joe? Just curious. 31. Wow. Okay, fair enough. Um... I... Yeah... I get that sentiment. but at the same time there's just something about kids that it's I don't know maybe it's just built into us but yeah it's it's hard not to have a soft spot for your own but being less interested in like other people's kids when you're out of the restaurant I completely get that yeah and I don't mean to I'm obviously not slagging the idea of children in general in the world I just it's not for me. It's what I'm getting at You guys have fun with it We will I am Yeah, so because I've got four and oh, I'm Yeah, I'm doomed. But I'm happy. I'm happy about way to go that positive vibe there Casey I'm not happy [music] [Music]