Pragmatic 13A: Safety, Safety Everywhere Follow-up 1

7 October, 2014

CURRENT

Follow up (Part A) to Safety, Safety Everywhere with Fire Extinguishers being fitted to the wrong spot in a Nuclear Reactor and the dangers of Nitrogen purging.

Transcript available
This is pragmatic follow-up archive episode 13 safety safety everywhere I'm John Geagea and joining me is Vic Hudson and good John Harry figured thank you so showed David the guts are sent through a very interesting link I was not a funny and you know I say I have this this expression when I say I am a funny thing is an isolated nation was not funny well it isn't this is one of those situations so are its an article about a nuclear power plants and what they did is in Europe and they they they were in fitting as a part of the safety initiatives are fitting more fire extinguishers and is one of fitting the fire extinguisher is to hang on the wall well arm what they did when they are they XML on the wall is that's really not amount because of forest is quite heavy switching to do is you OR put an anchor on the wall while they put Magnum or the wall that they put on just happened to be the outer protective shell the containment shall arm for our reactor I will let you not supposed whips DME arm anyhow that there was no incident beyond the fact that arm beyond the fact that there was a young men nothing actually went wrong it was a breach of the safety you guys that patched up into arbitrable remedial things fix it up afterwards but what would it brought to the forefront of my mind was that it is an interesting effect where the active intending to improve the safety of any situation can actually in itself create a safety problem are Yates worth pondering I think because you we take the sorts of precautions right are let let says long sleeve shirt long long pants witnessed or matters before the show and that's all well and good and great lovely but you want what it's the middle of someone that causes to have a heat stroke you know it's like one precaution creates a new safety hazard to the trade-off is a trade-off exactly so you think it's worth thinking about so not just walk me to improve the safety net in the situation but also well what exactly arm that I choose to do will that affect my safety and otherwise so it is worth pondering and to the people over there many fighting wishes and bad think through next so anyway arm and actually another example is the Mount are regarding heat and sun and skin cancer is a was out of sight are just recently and when I was outside are your hard hat and hard hats of course notoriously not exactly like a widebrimmed hat so if you're out and son are in any just wearing what is not wearing sunscreen and so on what the problem so what are you doing right someone come of this idea of a sunroom that you fit the hardhats of my pops around the outside gives you the equivalent of a yard of a nice widebrimmed sun hat and that's great the repeal of don't do it is ridiculous you got this thing hanging up in the safety the PPE shared this and it was done for them on the hardhats are in a white or takes is like five minutes out of your way to go grab one-for-one ornaments onto the roof of the rest of your time is not hardhats or not anyway little thing that still are next thing is arm had the AEN email from a friend of the show are Tristen lost our (as in the Rogerson and that it was a link about a few things were the first one was about space shuttle Columbia's first victims there is a link in the show notes this article it is a very good read if you're interested in and safety and cause-and-effect and its it's kind of scary actually because everyone remembers Columbia from when it burned up on re-entry in the 2003 very tragically and for every horrible accident however in 1981 long before that it actually there was an incidence our way around John born start our forest coal are they they died on the day of the incident and Nicholas Mullins suffered for tonight she's a decade and 1/2 after the incident before he died arm with physical and psychological issues as a direct result of the incident so what what happened was it was a nitrogen perch now nitrogen purging is relatively common in industry certainly in oil and gas and is also in them you with a special because when they're dealing with Neolithic liquid oxygen and hydrogen and so on yet their very very explosive gases so if you want to do is you want to make sure that those compartments are completely clear before you mix in normal air and The ideas you purge with nitrogen so fill up with with pure nitrogen so people think that you nitrogen is harmless right it's because 78% of the earth's atmosphere is nitrogen so you think you can options safe right it's essentially are an inert gas in its CAS most common form which is our into exactly trivalent bond arbitrable so it's very difficult to break that bond hence doesn't react with very many things and because it is readily available at the summit and atmosphere is easy to extract so therefore it can be used to expel any other hazardous gases which is what a safe purging is is perfect the problem is and this is the case with Colombia is that because nitrogen displaces oxygen more we need oxygen to breathe some as low oxygen our lungs with you we stop creating CO2 and is you if there is no oxygen you can't make CO2 obviously our hands gators no triggering our brain to tell us that were suffocating just pass out from low oxygen now I just want to touch on this and an option specifically is that anyone gas industry you use is also common as a safety practice to purchase nitrogen so let says you gotta pick monitoring you just you're about to ping online or you go you just pick the line well you you're going to inject that potentially could inject that with nitrogen to get rid of any hydrocarbons in their sucks when you open up pig to remove it to her for cleaning purposes this can be no issues noted the Chancellor's motion what is the hiss of interesting statistics for about nitrogen in the are the decade from 92 to 2002 and a more recent statistics sorry but that's what I could find there were 85 separate incidents and this is the end in the United States online 80 people were killed and 50 people were seriously injured so nitrogen and nitrogen purging it's intended to improve safety but it's actually quite dangerous and people underrate resting so is it entry gate is its it's interesting because I said it is the act of trying to make something safe which sort of dovetails on to my first the first comment feedback from David is that the act of trying to render something safe actually creates a hazard anyway so with with that were thinking about if your ministry or certainly you perhaps out to me listens and it situation but still interesting are another side note about just as well that I didn't realise actually worked for rum gas detection Australia which show although not in hazardous area detection so I portable leaders and stuff that a lot of the single fixed location detectors and in in the lingo they caught six point after a short and he was so needed as to his money spinners were car park come monoxide and cold room our government arm come docs are dioxide our senses but with car parks they do is apparently those out the hook up the ventilation fan are variable speed drives so rather than running the fans on full speed will do as I run them based on the proportion of carbon monoxide so as the proportion come monoxide increases though increase the speed of the fans to draw in fresh air all expel gutted about it at the MSA's money because an hour to run the full tilt all the time which is rather rather interesting and typical right so that you determine the level of carbon monoxide before people start getting sick and then will run the fans just before we dress that point is a typical lovely only it's clicking get a headache but we do want to get exactly anyone so are you and he was also personally develops our person involved in the development of CO2 sensor one point squealed to sounds pretty cool to me anyway are and found plenty of our carbon dioxide lease and be aligns because people installed correctly so again very interesting so thank you very much to David and Tristen for that follow-up much appreciated´┐Ż
Duration 9 minutes and 14 seconds Direct Download

People

Vic Hudson

Vic Hudson

Vic is the host of the App Story Podcast and is the developer behind Money Pilot for iOS.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, software developer, podcaster, vocal actor and runs TechDistortion the Engineered Network and technical whitepapers at Control System Space. John is a Chartered Professional Engineer in both Electrical Engineering and Information, Telecommunications and Electronics Engineering (ITEE) and a semi-regular conference speaker.

John has produced and appeared on many podcasts including Pragmatic and Causality and is available for hire for Vocal Acting or advertising. He has experience and interest in HMI Design, Alarm Management, Cyber-security and Root Cause Analysis.

You can find him on the Fediverse sometimes called Pleroma or Mastodon.