Pragmatic 16: One Mans Hopes And Dreams Of An RF Bubble

17 March, 2014


John critiques the Artemis pCell, a lengthy article about how pCell might work and walks through the key pieces to understanding if this is real life or is this just fantasy; and whether Steve Perlman is the right man to make this dream a reality.
Transcript available
Welcome to pragmatic pragmatic as a weekly discussion shall come to plead the practical application of technology exploring real-world trade-offs we look at how greedy is transformed into products and services that can generalise nothing is as simple as it seems this episode as much about a form that makes it easy to build and share a beautifully designed online forms combining human creativity with the power of motocross delays web technology to create new ways of asking questions online and Alexandra because of Judge Eddie Aidan done doing good paid on an awesome news again so I disliked at the show as always with thank you to all analysis is the great things about the show on Twitter and iTunes were still getting a lot of reviews are and also one nice articles are written on their own insights about show we do read them all the ones that we can find and dart it inspires me to serve to keep going so again thank you for that and specifically I just want to our dimension are Benjamin Heron who were very kind words on future commentariat is a licorice I suggested checking out a site so appreciate that also the survey are it's ran for a bit longer than I thought it would but that's okay I have closed now I have plenty of results and I just want to say thank you to everybody that took the time to fill in the survey so I just want to quickly cover what was in the results and other sites we had some of this already but in case you don't follow the guard that we feed least popular episode was about safety and the most popular was the battery problem the interesting thing I got home, theories about safety thing ends are it's interest it's it's it's interesting oliguria own conclusions but in any case about the number said and that we will be covering more about Savi electrical grid and upcoming episode so while we will be extending out the conversation on the battery problem is a new episode comes a point where Ms another follow-up relates that where we draw a line and it'll be a fresh topic so that is in the bin in the pipework so will be more of that coming now obviously this can be a bit of an in an even spread of people that like specific topics ends and that's fine and if you take out all those that gave everything 10 out of 10 and they were actually quite a few that people are really passionate about show obviously inputting 10 out of 10 for every episode which you either appreciate that everything but it doesn't sort of give me about a balance size or take those out and of the ones that the responses were left are there essentially are also two groups so are one group was are the people that enjoy the historical highly technical detail shows and those like the significantly less technical shows so I thought that the split they are low interestingly I thought it was any more are leaning towards the technical content shows" prices that are quite an even balance their most two groups so I honestly think that the topic makes that were covering are on on the show is so seems to be okay but I will be doing if you want technical ones just try and keep it all sort of as balanced as I can so in any case are by all people also had a whole bunch of really good for our ideas for topics in future show so again a special thanks to all those people that responded with our with suggestions for future shows this is quite little quite a bit overlap there and in fact today's episode is one of them was listed multiple times I do want to add something though about the other survey ASIC optimal bit of flak from are some listeners who said that the survey was presumptuous and assume that everyone had lessened every episode but the fact is I actually intentionally did that the reason that I have is that I'm I'm interested in targeting listeners that listen to the show more religiously in other words to every episode even if they were listening to the first 10 minutes or so and thought I could just was not for me and turn off the mat still of interest to me as a process honestly reads the title and says well managed and that topping doesn't even bother starting to show so that that was intentional and I do appreciate the fact that there are some people that were frustrated because they had to fill in everything boats are in any case are that was why did what I did was always possible that people that did list only a few episodes and then they stop letting listen to them all and filled out the form as if they had listened to them on the obvious I can't stop that so obvious in a system is perfect but that's the joy of surveying people so are not not the first survey is of I've done 1 mile from the glass on monitoring more on on the show and I have decided that much but still arm again thank you for filling in and arm and honestly I have to mention that I know that they're responsible of the fact is that title really made it easy to do and I was quite I was a lot to say no because the response I really really was quite good so honestly if you are going to do any sorts of bar anything like a survey are on the Internet than she's just check out worth checking out so without further ado today's episode I guess I could I'd like to sum up in in in a phrase and I think that is one man's hopes and dreams in all NRF bubble and a specifically talking about PSL which stands a personal cell now is asked to cover this by over a dozen fans of the show and quite strongly in in many cases so I'm sort of this is the first time that I've really taken arm feedback from listeners and said okay I'm gonna do, do this topic now before we even begin I need to set these ground rules and the ground rules are simple most of my armed experience in radio has been through amateur radio which is mainly the narrowband systems so you mainly voice or narrowband data are telemetry systems and so on as well in my year in my professional career recently there or narrowband systems in terms of spread spectrum signals wideband signals our ideas all my work in CDMA when I was working at Nortel since I left Nortel in 2001 I haven't done much in the actual RF development life-cycle kept in touch I've given such an LTE in recent years and how it goes together how it works but PSL is more of a more comp technology which stands for a coordinated multipoint transmission and that something going to during episode but it's something that only really started reading about in earnest two weeks ago so keep in mind PSL is not a publicly available product known as pulled us apart known has dissected and no one actually knows other than the people working in art is presumably exactly how this thing works so I will do the best I can to explain how it is believed that this this technology works and is I guess we'll have to agree to leave it at that point and I can foresee in 6 to 12 months time when more information comes to light that we may or may not have to revisit based on national facts come to light softly satellite going in I guess we can dive them sorry dive in there then yes right first of all start before I start by asking you how much have you heard about PSL as it is amazing to you and I've heard it's too good to be true our own visitor to the moralist summed up what the video I checked out the state are so easily watch the video which video did you watch the replies there about five of them in total arm Mala me so there is one was about how long that was his Columbia University arm now I am at a distance the right design what the regulars on the RMS on page 11 payers is as there is a three minute long clip of marbles I can an advertorial advertisement extended advertisement are or advertisement would have your browser anyway and then you had our couple fireman is a 10 minute one of the actual demos in an office right so what is PSL or PSL according to Artemis that the company armistice related going to be selling this product is a Dido system is a distributed input distributed output now that's not an industrial term is a term that they coined they as an artist coined harnesses headed by a guy by the name of Steve Coleman now forgive you cannot remember who he is our if you have been involved with on lies are then that's streaming you again service he was the original man behind that grey then they arm the grinder they had problems here so the thing when I was recently's articles is that now Steve Coleman is no stranger to disrupting industries our thoughts myself because a few a few articles lead like that are and I might well do you actually have you read this guys history so a little bit about Steve, to start with and I've just I guess if I get stuck in that let's just quickly frame the episode here are on a break this up into four pieces first but were not all about Steve himself segment I do some critique of the demonstrations that they performed are the third thing I do is I'm going to just quickly critique our Imran Akbar's article that was linked to biomarker armaments and finally I'm going to go through a bit of a walk through the different technologies of multiple access in my ball which leads up to the cell and ousting of how works so just quickly about Steve, and the man himself now I've done so you'll be uncharacteristically I've linked to the verge and is there is a link after I know is a link in the show notes that actually does a very good job of describing how badly he managed the online venture and is its it may earlier yet it is it is quite a good read and is as far as I'm aware it's the bests arm anecdote hang on it's the best description of what happened that I could find doesn't mean there is a battle and there are special I could find so if you're interested in about a man in recent times the mass worth looking at is also odd to look the people looking as a successful entrepreneur since he was also behind WebTV that Microsoft through $500 million back are at our back unable to earn 97 and that that's our MSN TV that was recently shut down through your lack of interest lack of lack of anything so it's not like any of the products that he's put together has had any kind of enduring impact Samuel said he was ahead of his time yes well okay but only commercially the Macintosh was ahead of its time and commercially was more successful than anything that you development it but speaking of Apple there is a crossover that is early years his backup is Atari and they spent five years at Apple are the is between 85 and 90 but after that his roles were less and less technical so he's become more of an entrepreneur after that so in any case irrespective of what you may think about this man his background his credibility primarily want to focus on the technology technical technological side of what his latest venture which the company is now all is called Artemis are one of his latest venture and what I've come out with so draw your own conclusions about the man let's talk about the tech so in February and I are words last month about for five weeks ago Steve announced a new technology that they calling PSL for short personal cell and is they were saying was contact tell communications world by storm is company artist was developing little devices that they called P waves miniature radio cell towers was of a sort that could be placed anywhere and would increase the amount of data that is in the can be carried to an individual phone significantly so the idea so sounds all well and good but the question as well as going to work in practice and the reality is we only know so far at least publicly what it's like in a controlled environment and it was a controlled environment within a building or an within a room in a building not even between floors of a building or between walls in a building so I would say relatively controlled environment not as controls and Alcoa chamber but certainly controlled so the way he chose to announce it is you gave approximately an hour long demonstration at Sara Columbia our university and is it was series very interesting so are anyway okay so they're just point about that particular one there was also a three minutes our video that was very highly while I think it was very slick was very nicely produced about how wonderful Artemis was and so on and I was find annoying when they play ads inside chinos and yes that applies to Apple as well as I got ice okay you made Mdm initiative I'm sure you see the ad on TV in a few weeks or few days even I don't really need said during a presentation but sure what the hell you made Mme happy for you but you ain't so they play this ad during the Columbia demo as well as it's already been released as well on you tube and so on but in any case are very very slick very high produced and of course very content less in terms of exactly what how this thing works just a bunch of Ra are great demonstration video runs for just under an hour and it was targeted at an audience of people that were looking to become entrepreneurs and innovators then is the first 14 1/2 minutes are terribly boring but you know what if you value sanity feel free to skip it if you don't then feel free to listen I listen so that you don't have to guess what was it a pitch likely looking for people around us this denial it was the first 14 1/2 minutes were just I like introductions backgrounds to bit about Steve's background and then Steve gets answers are yeah and you like to thank this person that person we here at all about being an entrepreneur and I'm not married Alyssa years and is no just great to be an entrepreneur and my God is like you at some point I'm assuming you can get to do exactly why we're here and finally of course he did Burgess understand Fortuna and Inskip feel free to skip it it some ear and actually my whole but the flavour of the presentation reminds me a little bit of Enron in a little bit of the web you like where the smartest Guy's in the room so don't look at those books where the smartest Guy's in the room you know that it is it had that feel to it. I would seriously it's just I'm not saying that these guys are going to be like Enron but it just it had that feeling about it's like you know very slick very well the presentation itself really wasn't that slick it's just like that mother and everything else that is very that the presentation Columbia I thought on the whole was Axa quite clumsy but you know this is from someone that I think I want to see and want, yeah but it's not a minute for a tactile rate they go on to see the flies yet but the problem is that the tech demos works perfectly in the presentation itself was clumsy and you and honestly that's not really a showstopper fully sums presentation skills not equal will not a product is any good or not it just means they suck presenting so he sucks at presenting okay that's fine no big deal you move along but in any case arm are just that one point the video that he calls out to God the actually behind one of the cameras was actually the guy that made it three minute video any site she took a minute and 1/2 or something to praise his prowess of Final Cut Pro and might while that is a really necessary army okay sure you've just pounded out one hour is add an extra year one half minutes you didn't really was not relevant but sure are there a lot of points anecdotes it was very unfocused you lots of rambling and a hell of a lot of vagueness as I this thing is really amazing and anyone are so well yes it had that seems to… Try polished not tight wasn't tight at all so so there was that an enemy when that happens it's either a this is not much to say and am and am now padding an hour to an hour or be just about prisoner and signal which it is but on a lean towards is actually probably a bit of both so there was either not much to say or not much that they wanted to say arm and he was not the best presenter in the world but in any case some of the icons of that indigenous worth mentioning as he showed a bunch of slides about how mobile spectrum is running out due to the issues of penetrating buildings and to be honest that is actually kind of true there's ways around the outer Wi-Fi is if you blanket a building inside with Wi-Fi you have to have 3G reception if you if you relieve the carriers from the quote unquote burden of having to carry voice calls then Wi-Fi is perfectly capable of carrying a FaceTime audio call well again mostly but usually only okay let's assume rolling (there is a feeling of witnesses is a different one but I note FaceTime audio for the purposes of most people talking would not you would not notice the reliability of the connection over a standard cellular mobile phone conversation you wouldn't amend that you would get a similar I was suspect quality of dropouts of FaceTime audio and you would get if you're just running around on the 3G network or 40 network or whatever so from that point of view why bother if you're within range of Wi-Fi give up on you 3G why do you care everything comes in LTE as packet data anyway so was the dam difference so to say that I were running out of you were running out of some spectrum of penetrating buildings so that only affects people don't have Wi-Fi only buildings in an hour don't have Wi-Fi and me almost every almost every corporate office I have been to has Wi-Fi and in no connected to the NSA what I find that it's all about that is like a disingenuous as I it's it's solving a problem that existed 10 years ago that is no longer a problem you know I that's my thing anyway that's okay apart from that is there is a crunch coming well because you keep adding more and more and more are users to to a finite amount of space and a finite amount spectrum you can hit the wall some point now it's, like the phone number thing of sorrows is the problem of Hayden and Emanuel unit 11 super densities as is different if you're in New York if you're in an LA course where it were even you know you can start having tremendous overlap of Wi-Fi and then interference my customers that is that more whether the targeting are absolutely and that this is part of it as part of the attraction of this product is exposed perform very well in high concentrations because the signals don't apparently interfere with each other however that's that that's all well and good but yea and I guess we can do this a lot of morning when we get to it and that is the range of this thing and what's suited for so I guess my problem with the problem I have with that concept though is that it's kinda like saying how with our miles NSA phone numbers ran out right will in Australia what we had as we originally had three digit area codes and we had six digit phone numbers and when I was a kid they upgraded that to 2 digit area codes and eight digit phone numbers so by doing that the extra digit gave gives you a heck of a lot more combinations than the other thing is a course that some the IP V4 versus IPV six right so while you've got you got for our apologies to 56 arm bites I forget I'm sorry, I'm drawn a silly silly break and that's why by for eight bytes components to give you every address in the worldly level if you've got even if you've got are you you go through a router and then you got some subnets that are hidden behind that those public facing IP addresses is still longer run anytime soon will as the theory right but you West Thunder were reachable when I had that wall we have to get IPV six everyone always thinks that with whatever technology that they're currently doing then can hit the wall will never need more than blah and of course when a resource seems infinite what we humans do we just keep on saying I would think that what is he going likely let's make everything Internet connected sure what happened is going the Internet connected will arm you might switch on Internet connected body iron intake and sewing machine you know insert some kind of stupid idea again to the Internet it is makes all better at whole episode on that so prefer that but you remain as I get whatever technology it if PSO is true is true and it works and is some kind of miracle I guarantee you that it will simply take you to the next wall so you him sort of saying were about hit the walls, same although obviously with someone in the wall of course we are we beheading this IPV for sex while fervently five years now and a little ocean this documentary are free happy and are now and thankfully they may get it like really hit the wall but once again how can I not see the frenetic when predicting the exact moment when is the problem that my four year and the closer you get to the wall you can predict with more precision, like an asteroid committed the plateau but anyway arm Weller took a negative term briefly okay back on some think they are okay so little he talks about radio arm how radio was considered to be reliable and then in this generation is enough of a people this generation of people will be up to Z I don't know this generation of people radio is not considered to be reliable anymore and frankly I don't really get it I don't understand that statement if you still AM radio and in building penetration then you know I am really had no problem getting into a concrete bunker for the most part you generally speaking I am radio would bend and penetrate all sorts of stuff but why do we move away from a.m. because the quality wasn't good enough we want more bandwidth to get a high quality signals so what we do we go to FM they are fine but FM you to use that bandwidth you to go higher in frequency find a high-frequency IOU to get the range you don't get the building penetration oh dear you so I don't see that there is a connection between generations and how radio was considered reliable that the suggestion is that that mobile phones were considered to be more reliable at one point an hour become less reliable bull yet I'm sorry but it's just completely wrong I mean honestly irony getting more dropouts 20 years ago on my mobile than I do that I get today coverage is better than it's ever been so I really don't understand that statement and I do live in a recent relatively high density sums city via Brisbane are harming is not as high-density as the Sydney or Melbourne or Sydney not New York or Tokyo but even so still high enough density so I don't highest I get that statement doesn't make any sense to me so either it's a statement is fairly says in our family set is a suicide is a debit showmanship or does he does not understand the issue or is he misunderstand history I don't get or did have a few bad experiences in his specific location that had nothing to do with it and it's just his impression so I don't know what I was but it is certainly distressed to see that being a you know product of of targeted bias rate there were just yes reusing these things are why their own minds a liar where you're paying a lot for them in terms of the products themselves and the data plans and elect anything and 10 years ago none of that was the case soul everything is more an hour rate there is there's the rub we are more absolute drafts despite what doubtful percentages you are limitless you absolutely and just comes back to the lack of polish and the presentation is if you're interjecting stuff like that you that's just I'd know I'm sorry but that's just it says it stuck out me as being completely wrong and I don't in any way right so that he gives a basic lesson about current cell structures how handoffs work and so on and then down the layering of cells from macro and micro pico femto cells so you that's the lot where I think it augers briefly before as well on next ubiquitous thing so that is us on our back all excess fibre is expensive but guess what size microwave microwave cost more run it takes more electricity it is more prone to problems of whether you and Mike wavelengths you from from point to point you in unlicensed bands well that there comes a point where you have microwave beams start crossing the skin start and sometimes get some strange behaviour depending upon frequencies that running at yes a very strange sort of effects of the two close to each other if they're not aimed accurately you there's also hazards with the with dealing with the installation and maintenance of these things actually discussed but I am what is that what is the typical rent from microwave when we are more than happy to rejoice well if if you've got line of sight than line of sight is fine it's just a matter of power so your link budget and if you make sure that you have enough margin from one end to the other such that when it rains really heavily stood a single thread because microwave is affected by rain so that the problem I got was that is yes it is more expensive the hall fibre but this is designed for high density areas so if you've got buildings I guarantee you it is going to be a better solution to run a fibre from the top of the building to the bottom through one of the access starts then it's going to write cable to cable products that is to install his negligent trench shelter to me in the stacks as lucky as the next? OR if you are shipping and microwave because it has to be on top of the building right you need to be as high as possible why small obstructions so you you governance hangup on the building you because got a free and tally you need to put up an antenna and register at least you in this country and pressure America is no different you have to register it and you can't have 100 antennas that anyone just feels like putting up on top of any building without without there being some kind of coordination so some building tops your license that there where the power coming from you so it's usually a different set of billing said if you own the whole building is one thing but usually those utilities are owned by other I'd like that the body corporate or whoever controls the building the owner of the building and a lease you that enough give your power bill and I guarantee the parable of Michael as Camilla Highland fibre and the other thing is even if you do get the microwave antenna on the dam roof that's great but you still get comms from that down to add a portal into the Internet what you do do that on a guarantee of journal fibre you could do it on your klaxon can do it on your six you do on fibre everyone doesn't fibre these days fibre is cheap fibre is not to the point where it's as cheap as copper so I I find the whole concept that microwave is cheaper it is predicated on the fact that you've got you have to run a fibre run from point A to point B in its 20 km yes then microwave is cheaper but in an urban area I dispute the fibre is more expensive the microwave so again I don't know whether or not that's a lack of understanding or whether it's just a convenient true forum you desire is primarily used for microwave and saw magic rating all this happens you and is likewise very dismissive and is not. To me is not very reflective of the reality that that that fibre is a better way to go because microwave spectrum is also limited by spinal reason fibre is your own partyline input as much data on that as it can handle and you will not interfere with anyone else so fibre is always a better answer unless it's a long distance and there is no existing corridor no existing conduits you lay them all in which point then fibre is more expensive just one small subset and not subsidies pitching the product at a gas is that one of the other interesting as there is one person the audience that keeps on yelling out and interrupting always the same guy and you are on video hire is only what this is this is repertoire was riveting around the lodge ably load your a couple of time indexes if you're interested 25 minutes 20 seconds 27 minutes and 38 minutes are there was a similar one arm later on I think that I didn't write down apologies anyway so will some questions that he asked was we do this what you're proposing we do this using Wi-Fi today and the next, was current technology can do this right now and in the next comment was this was this sort of technology was demonstrated Stamford five years ago was the plan that's what I think it's exactly those address the observations this is is bringing back the lake sells guys like examples Malachi it sounded like it was a plan to me it did really did not sound gender in the end if the person that was objecting is listing of the show please contact me and let me know if I'm wrong because I'm I'm happy to be wrong but you know what that's how it came across it just it felt a little bit pained a little bit manufactured and he said will cover and the cure will cover in the Q&A there was no Q&A if there was maybe there was but I didn't record that in publisher I've read around I could find no references to any Q&A after the Columbia Sessions site on a nonbeliever of this I mean I know you have more to public that could cause the audience here they come and looking at their save roundabout and is is learn more about PSL and is for Icahn is the interested consumer presented as okay are carriers and independent ISPs passionate talent and mouth in St teachers arm do you think this is not a consumer product but is kind of package like one they could feels it is like they're trying to do an Apple Keynote rate but I cannot buy this know what what I think are really talking to talking to you Diana stated your experience honestly don't know in the video he says he is trying to address people are that are of a technical background while he is the problem they didn't delve into too much the technical detail the stuff that that was not already public knowledge stuff that was not already well-known yet they didn't delve into severe technical audience in a brown body spectrum analyser no so I just wanted one gets there is and saw that you some objects a lot more about this demonstration arm the question basically was arm what they presented could be achieved with Wi-Fi or a set of LTE local sales and we would have no idea they never showed a close-up of the settings on any of the fines so they are fine that eight iPhones all we would need to see was a close-up of the screen showing that Wi-Fi perhaps was off and what 3G or 4G set was attached to sufferers going through Arneson may have had like a custom cell ID you know like Artemis base station one or something like that we would normally save souls dropped as AT&T might have some kind lingo code something to indicate that it was activism if they showed up and showed up with Rogers AT&T or whatever the hell it is these days of spring no clearly's I call BS right so all I do wish a bunch of fines from a distance no close-up of the displaying video as proof of something less not proof as far as I'm concerned is that why don't you show they were taken 30 seconds and it would have dispelled all that I didn't do that anyway they say pack the eight iPhones on top of each other and start video streaming are they back smaller white as quickly as they bring about a pack up than a starts video streaming are two TVs so as I go about Netflix and house of cards being in 4K and so on and just as it runs for about a minute or so later is that way is what we can't sit on he desires high-risk Jesus great and then I shut down and I go back to the presentation why so brief want leave that running and then talk on is there some issue with running it for a longer period I get a cycle you your you got their attention prove this release demonstrate longer I honestly assert a slight honesty is working for a longer period I get anyway so many subtle amount of bandwidth for existing cellular versus B cell layouts and again he shows a bunch of what bunch of Matlab's simulations if a reply with Matlab software before you yelling a lot of people have so arm lead with the reality that but they were not well I played with it and decide University nine double with a once a Nortel but yea I have apply within in a long time but in any case he starts talking about new mathematics that was at 44 minutes 45 seconds what new mathematics on a I'm not have shiny branches of mathematics are invented every day the week but that's a bit odd so again I so should my head back comment neighbours and talk about spectrum allocated 900 MHz cordless phones and how you there's a segment in there that states that is free of Abbotsford's public usage but the thing is that some if you can cohabitate those areas with 900 MHz phone I wonder whether or not that's going to be causing problems we will monitor megahertz cordless phones so can't just like you I think I'm not sure if if arm on my just not why didn't he talk more about the details of what he could use where it could be used as opposed to I was a bunch of your unlicensed spectrum we could use it here you do that so actually I think it's a prize that you can't because it when I specified that the band is free unlicensed specifying operational mode for that band and is using some new modulation technology the FCC in America and Aqua Australia look at and so hang on a minute that's not this is not business of this we have a definition of what this is we are to assess how much this is going to feel the other people are freely using a segment before you give your license to operate there for free you just rock up and and transmit some crazy new modulation scheme in someone else's bandwidth use don't it's not only doesn't matter if it's I it's free you can you can use this band with whatever you want will know it's not it's free under certain conditions so nothing it is I don't understand don't think that that was show the depth of understanding; software radios he talked about how everything is all software radios or software crushes on a course are remarkable like all servers are mayoral go off-the-shelf components and it's all running Lennox and it's all fully ill infinitely scalable and it's a better solution and custom silicon say one thing custom silicon doesn't crash arm that my first response but okay arm saying how are we the authors of the radiator or externally wall mounted that's great we tried out Nortel and it didn't go well we had RFL of the first edition of the mattress cells they had arm RF front ends and referencing models with the two generations and those two different ones are what will happen is people would do amount these things up along on side of our grain silos and because the other were high in the Kansas and what will happen as I get grain sucked in them and and and they would go be faulty and the next-generation mesh so after I left they went back to the RF amplifiers down the base station and use run yellow lost kites up to an antenna because I can't go wrong so I do find it a bit concerning that you with this anywhere or yeah you could put anywhere but should you because if you're putting all the radio amplifier transmitter and everything in this one box you better make damn sure that it's either hermetically sealed or it's not gonna get damaged because it's a what about antennas is that people put up the animate they start to not see them play and things will hit the get damaged I don't know that's not my question is doing all this work so exactly right in and goes and says this is only using 1 mW of transmit power in the transceiver that's incredibly low and in fact 1 mW is a definition of zero DBM because yards DB relative to milliwatt science at zero DBM so 1 mW or zero bpm of power transmit power is extremely small and of course it's meant to sound impressive and does an impressive boats are on Dressler more about that in terms of range are further on that I lost track how often reset is really cool stuff exactly what the point was annoying he was saying and every minute or two and it was so frustrating I might go can you please stop saying that is really cool stuff I don't I needed to hear that only the outright astronomy go graciously of think to myself what it was Steve jobs giving this presentation you know what I have given him a free pass and say it's okay to health wouldn't have given this presentation nine I but if you have Steve jobs has certain phrases in our rate you say I overload like broom it just works and the other solicitor but I thought about it there's no way Steve jobs were said and expression like that that many times to the point at which it was grating so anyway are an unhealthy jobs I was because is widely considered to be as CEOs go as deep, CEO are over of how you give a presentation is the same reason that like I bring up as a gold standard because is generally considered by people available to be an excellent presenter garbageman of the day exactly absolutely says the model by lot to which many people are compared signing as unfair criticism right so finally we talk about he talks about some Q4 2014 summer weather this year first first large-scale deployments he had they had a deal but it fell through what is so he said the city is to be yet to be determined and I haven't set up partly at so it sounds like there was a momentum and then for whatever reason they are the other party dropped our wonder why they dropped out I'd love to know why are in any sense at the end of 55 minutes and 50 seconds in the says piece of technology can be applied to more than just mobile phone technology varies as there is a hints in the demo video did you see it and that's all I will say so I can't say I don't actually know this obiter theories of that I read about what what he was hinting at the honestly that they ranged from it can focus RF and fry your brain is aware can use a weapon right are my God tinfoil hat people and then you've got the other group of people are prevailing wind because it's really loves anyone rates that really are what is also a snappy fingers let your fingers suddenly it's if you want talking at sit in cold climates your hand warmers now if your arm is seriously though she had really disruptive and I want the other theories was that you could do remote powering of of objects so you could remotely power selling like ADR is very small toy helicopter or something using this technology and so you would written and that would therefore meaning about is absolutely the first thing I wrote was was building as it isn't about communications about wireless power and a final get us lastly what's the we've heard this before and MM is out as near Tesla tried it and the truth is you simply lose too much power it is you lose too much radio energy by the time gets from one point to the other you've got Barbara left because radio waves expand in a sphere you can bend them you can coerce them reflect them and so on to try and focus them as much as you can but honestly in a you still can't transfer a meaningful amount of energy from point A to point B is immeasurable yes but it's in the microvolts it's not use when wasting so much the army of 1.5 V battery in some of these helicopters all run of 1.5 battery electrolyte 00 battery 1.5 V transmitted from using just a radio energy you would need to start with a ridiculous amount of energy source to get that even if you've even 100 m so I I again I call BS on you know what I really know what he was suggesting as a matter what I come up with I shoot down with that doesn't make sense so I don't get it and why yes will see what he means it will be something cryptic and probably not as impressive as a rhinoceros thinking so many catalogues while now exist not the bow piece of so there were two other demonstration videos that were just Mr Perelman talking and I just replications of what they presented a Columbia and there is one called the visual are our visualisation and expiration of his technologies are shown modified radios took out error correction inherent in LTE apparently an enduring is a turnoff adaptation which is the ability of the piece of technology to track the physical location of the receiver mother was the mobile phone or tablet computer tablet PC using such that they were able to show the boundaries of the piece Elsevier little bit too high to low for the 25 left-to-right or Funnelback that are the radio signal died so he was showing that it's a bubble in free space you and that's that's great okay again very cool demo but you know that was using a modified radio what else they modify you was a just error correction was another very good reason it was modified so I'm not sure I buy that one either in any case so what would I have what I would have loved to have seen against his might what what my wish list if if he was to start this again what would help I think would be less start of the spectrum analyser or an LC network analyser something like that you got an audience of people are technologically inclined a look at this got the screen of the scopes in a safe okay I can see he is my centre frequency okay you he is my arm are yet is my centre frequency and is and he is the bandwidth and all that so I can see for myself yes indeed you're saying is 5 MHz woollies 5 MHz or is demo negotiated 10 MHz or I can see the different frequencies and the roof is different frequencies or if it's the same frequency I consider different transmitter power is something technical you know not just you trust me you know that would have been helpful because you got your tri-pits this to technical people why not only what are now the question is what frequency was running was running at a very high frequency which is less prone to reflections all that run along frequency in reality covers a wide range of possible frequencies, subsidy iPhones imagine that before it would be nice to have detail what cell towers are going to lie just beyond the name but unfortunately do that you need to jailbreak an iPhone and is map out there called a signal to a lesser Deer Lodge operator final say all the details and cell tower location and all that really good stuff but you know I think the proper time was just on the salty dog of jailbreaking iPhones are using fibres of ICs and I'm not sure I'll I think it might be a technically ADR attended jailbreak available at the time they would be doing development and the time the presentation boats CEO again it what you jailbreak to illustrate that the napkins you bring up the question of well if you jailbreaking to that have you messed with the baseband modem firmware of you are done some other dodgy stuff to make is non-standard iPhones is a double-edged sword there I suppose they could at least only iPhones that they won't connect over Wi-Fi you because honestly you could wear with a couple Wi-Fi hotspots you could easily bake that no problem siding opening and thoughts with I collected almighty all the kids I've had my iPad and my iPhone and Weiss iPhone I stuck them all on top of each other just for the halibut and I streamed a bunch of videos from from my MacBook Air which is an iTunes library on and I've got our Wi-Fi router on here and it worked and it was a Caucasian I cannot wasn't for caving the. Honour the yellow I realise it's nonexhaustive test but it just I had to satisfy my own periodical video that half interestingly I could not take a video of Albert is in the device I was using to test our again so I was not setting into devout to debunk everything I'm simply pointing out that honestly and I cannot find a gradual band and router and some is so you got to be disposed of 5.2.4 gigahertz and the router notes dual antenna rows. The diversity and everything that this is not the latest AC roundabout Yahweh installer disability qualities and router but you want saying is that if I could do something like that with no effort then you may if with 1080p devices or stacked on top of its of each other couple Wi-Fi hotspots and ships theoretically should work so you want it just I feel like most magicians would work harder at showing the audience look the box is totally empty right tap tap and then as a bunny rabbit even a magician would take more time showing you look this is the trick and and yet they didn't do so either eyeliner anyway are only operated on enough about those presentations is wanting if you could tell still about time for dinner arm so forms a key component asking questions online and up until now they've made a lot of work to design configure and administer and after all that the results of usually burn pretty unflattering arm there was other take care of some of the problems they make it easier to get something basic up by quitting something great with them are still hard what we need is a tool that is easy to use feature rich and that looks and works great on a device and that's where that one comes in two forms are beautifully designed and built our cross-platform compatibility will not break down but designed and from the beginning arm is not responsive design diner you've given were going to say to you you get this rate you get that out of the debate between responsive design and making custom stuff read platform absolutely arm and and the idea here is is really that that there are serving a different code base to every tab at the base and making decisions about what needs to appear on the screen to really optimise that individual experience soul arm things that you might be able to do when your own dustup like no keyboard" I yelled mousing around you know that you know you have a harbour state ever on on mobile and technologist just shrinking something doesn't doesn't address that change behaviour assault the point is they've really addressed these issues from the beginning and Andy ended as it is that all in all designers artworks and and their focus on making these things work is actually it is really easy to use and put together I've been using them to make a bunch of little surveys on our card telephone stuffer to somebody on Twitter and out like you mentioned earlier you did it further the pragmatic survey and is really quick to go right through and build stuff and it doesn't just doesn't feel super happy arm its restriction was enough that merely go through and Anna's nose clean fast so so that does make me heat having to work with that which is good it's nice to be enjoyable arm the whole point with the with the experiences that it's always about asking entering one question at a time so everything is linear are unite jumping around doesn't really matter situation where you should ever be forced to come back and change anything or worry about what's coming up had and you don't have that in your thinking about getting a user guile with your price as I you can you can one make sure people know how much is coming on in your bladder with some sort of an indicator or ignoring a progress bar by by night showing this long form ahead of time and bacon of pushing people through step-by-step urine avoiding that dropout and you can see it in the result sexual analysis statistically significant that this approach really works better that they are the big things is it really is about chanting championing good experience and design the point is to create a space where users feel comfortable there not feel like they are getting sold and collector being forced to do things that I want to do and make them feel safe and that means I can answer animal activity artist if you're using follow different things really not just for business arm doing everything is a customer feedback and surveys by also like kind to us landing pages of an organisation it is really designed to let people use their imagination actually takes one they are using tape forms to run their weekly stand-up meetings are stuck and I was sound myopia today rewrite: use is extremely odd that are having a Fridays they delegate together and they do a little like mini Keynote presentation are meeting using using that so it's it's it lands deadlines a bunch of ideas arm and was there the only form builder that lets you get unlimited funds are free soul unite like Danny as many questions as you want as many as you get your review unlimited art the whole point is to let you out constantly and for a limited time they're offering a three month free trial of the new take for improved service so if you want to check it out I'd see we can do is good at WW W duct tape form duck calm/view likes and dial when you're not there urine CEO hotly pursued radiators of polio hundred different tapeworms that have been built and get a feel for what you're able to do what this enables and if you are easy and you decide say not use the coupon code for Lux you get for three months and the dates are identical to do is reject our Itza in good working with them and the more of gutter experience actually using it are recognising that it really is more of a bluesy tool belt for asking and answering questions its nightly survey builder arm is a subtle thing that makes a difference stop thanks for conference monitoring the show ever make it easier for people to get to know each other better and it doesn't that are thank you Ben and thank you title and our dentistry real object amount I would and will move on to an article about T cell written by John by the name of M and run Akbar and was linked to by Marco Island and as I first came across this and I started getting hammered by listeners about .21 to cover this will quickly talk about Imran's article and I spent too much time on it though so there's a feeling she says and that it sort of grace little bits start with them on you read a quote from his article interference cancellation allows you to use low lower frequency radio waves with better propagation characteristics i.e. longer range until now governments have had to limit the power output of radio antenna so as to not cause undue interference to other users of the spectrum especially when using a frequency to can travel very far in brackets amateur radio AM and TV whitespace frequencies et cetera now that shows a sort of a lack of knowledge of exactly why governments restrict what they restrict so interference cancellation has absolutely nothing to do with the frequency of the radio signal has everything to do with the bandwidth of the signals so vile transmit data and mats are at a bit right and whatever bit rate that might be I might need a 10 MHz channel to do that so if I need 10 Mount megahertz of bandwidth to transfer all the data bit rate that I want to follow started 15 MHz as my lower frequency phenomena need all the way up to 25 MHz to cover 10 MHz spectrum now if you we are knowing that the now wavelength the former is vehicles are flounder for a wave you can appreciate that building in Lantana that covers service simultaneously transmits those signals at approximately the same gain over that period over that bandwidth and you probably do with a log periodic that irrespective you you could build a metallic that was me extremely expensive difficult to bill as not to be very efficient so the lower frequencies are usually reserved for narrowband signals I can know and and signals typically require propagated characteristics like AM radio so clearly you he is not aware of AM radio transmitters or is is does not understand the reason that they desolate from 512 kHz to 1800 kHz may transmit hundreds of kilowatts and yet they don't affect mobile phones that are within 100 m of the towers so that nothing is that the powers it has got nothing to do it at all anyway so another quote which in turn means that you can put them meaning the artist Eunice arm within line of sight of each other using microwave backhaul as opposed to fibre in brackets which is faster set up now I already sort of had a go at this from the presentation section and honestly microwave around big cities therefore skyscrapers are tall buildings and you know it's congested as hell you some of the summer microwave bands do actually have licensing that all free and the ones are free getting some very congested size, reach a point where you have to be regulated as a systemic interference going on and the other problem you've got is that in many cases you can't get a line of sight between the transmitters and receivers even if you are the top of a tall building it may not be the tallest building and is not a problem sometimes you buildings are tournament and trees grow in oh so if a tree grows too tall it can kill you microwave signalling thing on right but note the tree grows in what is now a currently more at all buildings wishing I was a buildings grow they don't if you want them actually to say the same size but you people put new buildings right the buildings are higher and taller and eventually building stop them what you do, your building taller lesson will be harder so you have a talent of your building I Casa require special permit you to get that what about aviation permits and stuff is that you discard the I find microwave to be a short-term solution ultimately should be running fibres honestly I don't get the whole microwave point-to-point links are so wonderful not really I think they suck think that there are short-term Band-Aid anyway next quote doesn't require full and perfect channel state information to be known at least at the trend at least at the transmitter but even if it's not perfect there are statistical techniques to deal with really statistical techniques well with you try to triangulate position accuracy of your source is incredibly important especially if you doing this to a 1 cm x 1 cm bubble which is what Alma's claim that this is capable of so I know a statistical technique that allows you to fudge your accuracy if your source transmitter is a metre to the left or the right it means your end result is gonna be at least a metre to the left or right you just won't know so statistically it might be transmitting the bubble near the antenna west, work with the 171 cm bubble so I don't know I don't that doesn't I get that either anyway this is this that this idea of this 1 cm bubble I think this is where I get enters the realm of magic from me in a real shop maybe for people listening to it it seems like there that you're reaching across space is expertly action at a distance rate like how is this happening are an add-on of that is even worth going into but it just I don't have a model for how that would work in my brain while trying help you with that model I've thus annexing a lot so the idea that he was proposing a statistical techniques will make up for it my point is no I don't think that will that they will only as possible you simply will be unable to log onto the device and you'll default back to a non-Artemis 3G 40 whatever mode else we sailed on try to connect a high-speed is my position information is much else that informational transmitters are crushed I will come back and say his little pea self and the radial simply be out of alignment because the radios in the opposition's eyesight are well does the Bible transmitting three cinemas to the right of the antenna which means it receives nothing and are okay or not receiving your signal it's supposed to be wonderful what I do so we are saying the statistics makes up for it and come on now doesn't a nicer looking a lot honestly arm only my criticism article right there and I want that to be very short because frankly the guys trying to interpret what he thinks Artemis is doing his non-authority on the subject necessarily again the only people are from Artemis and Al Qaeda talk about it publicly this is all proprietary stuff so we can only guess and he's really only going based on information that he is not available to and I'll be honest he's had a pretty damn good stab at it is understanding of it seems to be relatively okay the article if nothing else was the best link repository I found on the subject so he had like probably 50 links in his article to a whole bunch of different things are reeling from the white papers and and the stuff about at the way that they deal with interference atmospheric interference and astronomy I stuff like that other related fields whether doing interference calculation using using pre-coding techniques all this stuff you honestly he is to be commended if nothing else pulling together all those references so it was an invaluable resource when I was doing a prep the show so honestly despite those for five criticisms that I just levelled at him I still think well done arm you nicely put together even I disagree with some parts of okay so let's get into the wasp and before we start about basics of radio signals and make sure we cover ground I want all of our information theory a bit more about some claims so they claim piece I will work with any existing LT handset I'm not convinced by that and I'll say why later claimant to is the technology press once anyone seen of radio bubble around the target devices antenna so 1 cm you is really not much 1 cm is now 10 mm or whatever so are 1 inch is 25.4 mm so no one centimetres about what quarter of an inch just over quarter venture might furnish is really not a very big bubble at all it's very very tight so it is an interesting claim to make so in terms of information theory during the 1920s are always through the 1950s guy called Claude Shannon and uncle Ralph Hartley developed what's become known as information theory and the quote unquote famous Shannon is there a more limited Shannon's limit is described by the equation capacity is equal to bandwidth times the logarithm of one plus the signal-to-noise ratio and that ratio is obviously linearly expressed not as DB since Stevie's already logarithmic sorrow what it means is that I was me the bandwidth restricts how much data you can send as well as the noise you reduce the noise so mad bandwidth you can carry more data increase the bandwidth same amount of noise you can carry more data essentially you get nothing for nothing is no magical way of actually changing those facts so a couple, as I seen in the press about this is they've sidestepped Shannon's there will no actually you can't sidestep it because it has been proven over and over and over again AA there is this information theory right and honestly night what this is doing isn't really sidestepped Shannon's limit all and I guess the problem like that I have with it is that it's it presupposes that are that noise is less of an issue than it really is in the real world and again in a controlled environment maybe that's true but an uncontrolled environment with hundreds of thousands of users I have my doubts I think the noise will kill they say uses noise to its advantage while while you are but if the noise is information it ceases to be nice and hands Shannon's theremin shows limit should still apply so I get that in any case that's sort of a grey area so we won't dwell on it too much arm the biggest difficulty ICP cell has to be the accuracy of the transmittal location they really need to be exact to be that precise if you're trying to project a signal to a 1 cm² bubble in space in three-dimensional space not just X or Y burners that play as well three-dimensional space I honestly that this committee incredibly accurate the GPS is in fines are not even that accurate wonder marketing this as if it were big freethinkers with serendipitous greatest rabbit you could just put in wherever yet but the thing is if you put them wherever you're still have to tell the system where it is physically located in space so you and you can do that using GPS satellites were yes what you can there was some wider techniques they do to increase our GPS arm accuracy is they'll put a transmitter sorry GPS receiver on the top of a hill that has a clear's line of sight to the horizon so speaking always picking up 567 GPS satellites and in that I'll have a very large number of GPS receivers are correlated signals to give you a highly accurate position down to the centimetre of a millimetre off whatever the blurring level that the US military advantage that they taken off or not but the longest time our blurring of the figures is a lot less than it used to be yes I think that they may have taken off in any case the point is that highly accurate so then what happens is they will then broadcast and say hey by the way our I'm an accurate value so you can go to that tower and will do as little say definitely assure you are within this this maximum range of this exact location so then it can take that information and then using less satellites lock in its own location more accurately and more quickly than if you had to do it without if that makes sense so they would have to do when you are envious of reciting the expression serendipitous deployment means that you don't have to do apply an application for the top of the building and have all these permits go it's low-power like Wi-Fi is put wherever you like but the difference is you going to have to tell exactly where it is in space it has to no me how else can you triangulate if you don't know so less than that's the first part of this has to be precise I just I do not understand how it is possible to triangulate a position without knowing the information if I misunderstood that it does need a try guide is getting its position through some other method that I'm not aware of your hey old gal take a hit on that but I'm judging by the accuracy that 1 cm² bubble sorry but Eli's position is everything so the other issue arm transmission power as a next issue arm actually a little bit further down so it is triangulating you go need at least three transmitters obviously the more the merrier but to won't cut it one certainly won't cut you need to have more than one because it was alert locate a visit position are in space you need to have a minimum of three antennas because if you have two antennas you take a reading from each of them pointing at one in what you and the role you can sweep for a transmitter but if the antennas are fixed and you're taking a reading of signal signal strength and the approximate direction that it will tell you if you give me two images either one in front of you all the one behind you so it sort of happy describe this on audio and I apologise it's hard is easier if I could draw it but essentially forgot to fixed antennas and you're trying to trace the location of an actual radio transmitter that is out there in your receiving information from that the two of them was that we tell you okay to signal could be in this position directly in front of the two antennas or the same distance directly behind the antennas I can't tell the direction now you're using phase arrays and yours doing beam steering and your your your able to smooth the radio signal without physically moving the antenna which yes as I may well be doing then maybe get away with two but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind if you want to get a decent measurement of height above sea level you need 1/3 transmitter and in that you need all three dimensions now he said in that in the demonstration videos I think he said there were three or there were several Soviet territory was said to or a couple be said a thing appreciated several says at least three maybe theirs for which you need more than one and that's just a reality mind you those three or four could handle hundred users okay so in a fine but it's not like a radio tower technology where you just put up one antenna and that cell or sector would be covered so as the first thing to be aware I guess there is obviously the more P waves you have the better positional accuracy and the more power you can focus on that location all the transmitter powers being additive if they coalesce at one point and this is a very so the bottom line I was no matter how I tennis over in my head P waves the current form can really only augments cellular towers but they can't replace them because ultimately you still need to have an initial connection with a has none of that that that has is that you you need something to generate that connection or uniquely that can go beyond where you can't don't have more than three radio Smith rearm as points to be accurate enough me what if you're within range of Giuliana space aces were not the third what you do then you know if you only are you needs in cells how to fall back on so this I see this as being an augmentation of the cellular towers and frankly there's nothing specific in that it said look this is gonna replace the cell towers I think what was more about is looking are what we can lay this on top of existing cell frequencies and it works on top of Elsie technology they didn't say that the existing cell towers would be thrown away specifically and frankly I don't think they could be right so I got all the basics of radio the Minister talking about antennas I'll try keep this brief goes merry-go-round long as it is radio signals travel assign ways okay pre-straightforward we modulate those ways in different ways to carry information first analogue now digital was a modulator means you very the amplitude of signal or you can read a frequency of the signal so an FM signal frequency modulated I am signal amplitude modulated or area of course this also phase shift our phase shifting so you've got fascia of our King for example basic modulation and there's a whole raft of different ways of doing it but essentially you have a carrier frequency that carries the radio waves and it gets modulated with the data and the other end the receiver strips off so strips off that but that gets back to equal the baseband data so essentially you have two locations a and B I am transmitting beyond receiving and then transmitting through some medium that will call see such information be transferred in EA in enough power at the transmitter to reach be B needs to be sensitive enough as a receiver to hear what a.s. transmitting and see there cannot be too much noise in that medium in that medium see between so that's the equation and when we have a communication link we call that a link budget so we say how much power the transmitter and watch arm and again I got my receive more sensitivity my receiver how much noise by government shall but still simple enough usually expressed in DB or DBM assume that the world is radio quiet there is no noise at all there is no signals other than just your radio signal assume that for a second okay anything still get noise so the problem is that silicon actually creates noises as actual because you know no solid material is completely solid all the all the electrons are Arabs or vibrating as we get an absolute zero and or molecular motion stops and that creates noise so there is no such thing as a noiseless receiver and one of these that they do on on the radio telescopes they call their Trent that their receivers with our liquid nitrogen to drop the temperature reduce that noise and that makes the receivers more sensitive so you can only do so much to get rid of that noise and the sensitivity of receivers normally defined as the minimum input signal required to produce a specific signal-to-noise ratio at the output for the receiver in reporting and writing about and it's the mean noise power at the input for the receiver times by that's the required civil noise ratio and that's got a mouthful is not the problem is and how is to describe so some receivers have better sensitivity than others so I thought what might be fine fun interesting is to look at an iPhone and is in and try and figure out what the sensitivity is on iPhone and you mispriced the hardest finer the only one I could find had this was an Entech and bayonets and I young 11 and sector groups great site I draw my guts I have to anyway arm iPhone for they had tests done around the antenna gate time of course not surprising that I did write down into the detail was reported as having sensitivity maximum best sensitivity of -113 DBM so hundred 13 DBM so that's about what I'd expect you a mean in our telemetry I've had a couple that will go down to minus hundred 17 but then again there narrowband and not wideband okay so I struggled to find a chip specifications the latest iPhones but the best number that I could find believe me I looked but I just couldn't find them shorter out there and shall advise buying 10,000 units I get a data sheet if I was a serious company like Nortel instantly go to manufacture and Sohail work firm autonomy are design division can you please inspect in this chip and the next day you would have a our young something in the mail from the mica thick paper of the what of paper that tells you when you want to know and didn't want know about that ship alas I am not in that position anymore and wasn't publicly available so as best I got anyway so give this the best possible chance to run a 700 MHz assume that there is no loss just free space loss softly run that through the calculation for free space loss again is a link on Wikipedia for that for free space loss calculations we get 15.2 km which is 9.5 miles so at 10 DBM transmit power assuming we try to reach hundred 30 minus hundred 13 DBM receiver we get a maximum range of nine 1/2 miles that she sounds like a lot and actually is a reasonable distance but that's actually nowhere near the distance that an actual cell tower can cover and remember this is an ideal world scenario free space loss only there's interference there is this transmit losses receive loss is all very is a much bigger equation this is just assuming perfect conditions and that there is no multipath there's no fading none of that so year okay not good at it also assumes that we dissemble interferences no coach Alan Ference so your radio signals any radio signal in the world of women is no others so again I find it highly it is obvious that the power on this these units they're not designed for you long distances now made a working on your one major work I tend what model or 21 model 10 but I mean if you got Isis Power Rangers the pulley won't work in free frequency bands on and so on is a risk power restrictions but in any case they didn't announce that Saigon government announced well in producing a high-power version I don't know but in their current form it is further cements my assertion that this can only ever be an augmentation of a cell tower system it can never be a replacement crisis will advance Tanner's sorority ways are transmitted in all directions right so it's not a perfect bubble sphere having a female expanding sphere is the best way because radio waves don't start a single point there transmitted through a resonant device that we call antenna so you apply them to our conductive material and what happens is they resonated certain frequencies and that then propagates the signal through electromagnetic wave now they'll travel in whatever directions that the antenna design permits and most of it is our predominantly omnidirectional as in all directions but there will be points in the radiation pattern of the antenna that have high gain and points have less gain so is possible to actually add elements in front and behind driven elements to create a Yaqui and his young and Tanner's will actually guide the signal tours of frontier maximum gain at the front of local and frontal lobe of the Argie is the frontal lobe will have the maximum amount of gain anyway irrespective of that list too, categories of antennas passive and Tanner's an active and Tanner's passive and Tanner's taken beyond directional they can be directional and are so lucky Argie oral or periodic loamy omnidirectional like a vertical antenna but passive and has received raw radio energy and through residence alone I amplify the signal as it was picked up and the receiver simply amplifies it further and stripped out the to the baster of database pendant and some so that's passive and active and Tanner's use silicon usually fats alleges I modify the characteristics of the antenna to keep it in tune across a wide range of frequencies in the performance of resin frequency the antenna can be adjusted dynamically I say that like "in a manner of speaking is a bit of simplification just trust me it affects the loading of the antenna and while Bolívar only got too much detail as to how active and Tanner's work but typically you only use them in compact situations like at lower frequencies you know you might while you might have to have 20 vehicles a flower you may have to have an antenna that is 20 m long as what you only got 1 foot IA William properties and active antenna or heavily loaded antenna but these days active antennas are becoming more common for interior inside a house in and so on however active antennas are also used in phase arrays and that's the next thing I want about so having a single antenna for transmitting and receiving is the old-fashioned way one of new ideas it was floated over while ago was to actually have a multiple's much smaller antennas but lots of them and each of those could be an active antenna and what you do is you could then dynamically phase them together in such a way that you would take a little bit of the radio from this one will be from a sonographer map one and you could add them all together to create much more radio energy so that idea out of the idea of phase records you can get you the different ways of splicing together though that you've got time or frequency domain are mixing however that the point is that it's actually then possible to electronically" steer the direction the antenna he is in so Willie Argie for example it's a passive antenna and its main frontal lobe is oddly upfront but imagine if you were steer that you physically turn the antenna and I have one of those I had of them and the antenna rotated back when I was in our amateur radio regularly young and I could turn a beam around and point the body Argie wherever I want to talk get the maximum again but with with phase arrays to actually possible to dine to steer them electronically so not really steering that antenna physically is not moving but by changing the phase of the different antennas in the grid you're able to steer that maximum gain points a certain number of degrees the left right centre so at this point in time as counsel betrays but does work arm so the idea is that you can use this technology arm thoughtful like in the spread spectrum white wideband signals express spectrum are flimsy to may face shifting is preferred because of noise variations over wideband with our get they get introduced a few time-based staff are time domain stuff that you have a greater impact on wideband over narrowband so will they go with the things you may face shifting for that anyway this type of steering a radio Tas are sometimes referred to as beamforming the ideas you can steer the beam form the beam specifically in one path so rather than being fixed like in a traditional our three sector cell where they'll get antennas are designed to only transmit over about hundred and 20° and be 320° some sector and Tanner's and I will be sort of backed up against each other so that they cover for 360° around them so I three sectors create also have six sector cells and you can keep dividing and dividing and dividing it but the point is that those antennas aren't steerable they are always looking at the same hundred 20° but with a phased antenna you can say while I can actually set Eigen up a group of Middlebury prologue group in the lower groups can look at this part in the other group to look at this fundamental possible that this part of the hundred 20° so you can steer the different frequencies in different low directions and you are so why would you do that and the answer is to follow the people that are on the phone so that's beamforming I guess that's that's the radio component now let's talk about multiple access methods is ultimately a big problem when you've got Ra mobile devices is you got a lot of people want all the ones so how do you do that with analog mobile phones it was like all frequency division multiple access maiden call about the time they retrospectively call it that back then it was a scorcher your channel right on channel 1 channel to channel 3 a CB radio UHF CB radio or whatever you you have a channel you can talk passive you gotta apply a public duplex connection either in uplink and downlink frequency but doubly unique and you gotta be speaking or not they are yours you own them time division multiple access CDMA each phone had a timeslot is a big frequency and frequency like and cut that up in time so you take the signal is the analog on outlets in the make a digital and ongoing to compress that down to say ER 8 kHz with a vocoder voice coda and Darcy vocoder diary split that obvious are counterfeit for review conversations on this frequency I was in a split them up in time so you get the first quarter of a second you over the second quarter is second you over there get 1/3 new over the forsaken for four people for conversations compressed digital audio on one frequency fantastical has quadrupled my are the density that I've gotta mind my system the same frequency allocation that's what I want better multiple access methods more efficient so that they bring in frequency hopping spread spectrum and that's what the GSM uses ascot a combination of FDI in TDMA whereby as a group of frequencies that usually all adjacent to each other and signal hops between them pseudo-randomly the idea is that there is any interference in any one frequency it won't wipe out the entire channel money wipe out one very brief components of one of the timeslots on one of the frequencies so that allows you to carry on the conversation was designed to combat narrowband interference is actually a relatively effective but at the same time it's I guess I worked in CDMA for too long but assume a reset all asbestos pretends spread spectrum no real spread spectrum CDMA that's that's direct sequence spread spectrum in which case instead of having a narrow frequency and hopping around all over the place what you do is you actually have the entire baseband spread over a massive amount of bandwidth like 5 MHz 10 MHz 20 MHz huge amount of bandwidth well I say huge it is in relative terms of zero narrowband signals at 25 kg my safe idea that the city may channels like 10 MHz Colgate as somewhat IACS Willie saw regularly more complicated than normally a radio signals transmitted the narrowband a high manner powder gives you the best chance of getting through however that easily jam a bull's-eye can jam that were either intentionally or accidentally but by taking the baseband and applying series codes to it spreads the signal across the wide frequency range transmit whole lot so the idea is that use the same total amount of power but it spread over a much larger area of spectrum but direct sequence spread spectrum also comes a very cool idea are signal correlation by encoding your data the dial you've got your baseband with a unique code and anaesthesia may one of the codes are uses while scope is possible to actually transmit all the uses data on the sector or the cell depending how you configure it on the same frequency and yet you still able to extract as the conversation at the destination of the rally receiver or you do is you correlated with the whilst codes assigned to that user so if you correlate the noise what looks like noise in your spread spectrum channel with whilst code 5 let's say then you will pick pick out any data that is going to the users been allocated and encoded with Channel 5 code 5 Gencor channel code 5 and if you tune in on on code number six may be is no active conversation on there so the noise is just noise there is no actual fungal and that's conical because it means that you can actually have all the signals lay it all on top of each other and all mixed together and yet you can still pull them out by correlating the signal that's really really cool however it also has issues with power control and why does is complicated so I will go to find that because that's not the method that LTE uses which is why it where we going with all this so the next generation is something that they referred to as LF DMA which is orthogonal frequency division multiple access so yeah it's done to get even more of a mouthful so what is does it use the subsets of sub carriers over the over the wide frequency range and you can come to think of it as a combination of FDI in TDMA and if you want a good explosion there is a Wikipedia not Wikipedia I'm sorry presentation is a PDF in the links and are and you have ever read through that it's actually got some really nice visualisations mineral visualisation is only as good as its context but it is pretty good so if you registered and check it out but suffice to say it's a combination of FT main TDMA but importantly it is different from all the other previous methods because it uses positional information at the receiver and this is where we come back to the option is not enforceable as an option to use our beamforming if you want to so all the previous methods that that we used all CDMA TDMA you direct sequence reads hopping doesn't matter they were all essentially passive in terms of being able to locate the user they knew the light user was somewhere in the sector or someone sell they know exactly where I didn't care so the signal was broadcast everyone as though it used up all that spatial radio energy rights I just went everyone that sector and said you are you the person I'm talking to you know who I mean talk back to me when you're ready whereas the idea of far LTE is that you can now assign sub carriers specifically and cater their modulation methods based on the proximity to the transmitter so for example close you are you can actually give it a much higher encoding rates were as one-to-one as further way might do with them 16 arm cure 16 g UIM quadrature amplitude modulation was once closer to the actual transmitter are because your signal strength you might go 64 Queen because you've gotten less noise between the transmitter and receiver therefore you go to a higher encoding rate to get more data through hence you'll get more data closer to the tower as opposed to further away which under traditional 3G was not the case as a fixed rate and we were so that's all really super cool LTE arm 5 MHz channels typically has about 512 sub carriers are 10 MHz channels have about thousand 24 sub carriers typically are the retina reference signals transmitted between transmitters and receivers to determine the channel coefficients are that help to determine the quality signal as well as its location or approximate location not very precise but approximate there is a again are it's about the PDF article sizeable LT in a nutshell I should mention that in a walk is reality as a kilogram builder diesels running one okay I'm going and getting excited now because more muscles that we could talk a piece of this staff that it's a long road but you know what arm if you don't start with the foundation than the end result makes no sense so my with million-dollar heron if people Nicholas and a couple times and you eggs sorry from silently fastening sites and isolated ladies is a lot of stuff and it's but it's it's a thing in our argument again and get is appearing was magical colloquially copies of works and stick Oracle sub members were is still with me that's great Axel okay so I told little bit about space DMA which is some was divisions and space the idea is that not only is your cell are broken down into hundred 80° but using different beam beamforming methods you can actually are defined hotspots closer into the cell tower and further away so the whole idea of space division multiple access comes into play and are also with MIMO as well because of a minor multiple input multiple outputs that are based on that idea of where signals the beams are formed to use a specific set or cluster of users within a cell or sector so by further separating those uses and defining a space it's possible to fit more users in a given cell area that he had previously so obviously that's providing a suitable alignment are either not clustered in the non-alignment that is suitable for that what you screwed but you know hey it still works more often than a dozen and is one of the other reasons LTE is fast baptises go ahead one more bandwidth that helps to okay and that is where I must stop with LTE and now we get to talk about peace officer what the hell this well good John Wright wow but hey all existing technology nothing new there recently guides you more information please cell is all about pre-coding but the thing to understand it is not some kind of revolutionary new way to modulate a radio wave that you it doesn't use some new special law of physics that is been discovered the idea is it's about pre-coding the data to pre-correct the data before it's in our pre-correctly at the radio raised for the senior so what that actually means is yards not as hard as you might think to get your head around so artifice of the people that want a term Dido which is now director in our sorry Dido demo forgotten stands for ready boots it's not an industry term what is really is is coordinated multipoint transmission CIP was a mention or, which are mentioned at the beginning that's been around for most of the last decade not quite a decade but most of it so this is not something that artist came up with on their own it's something that everyone else has been sort of you were poking and prodding throwing ideas around here this could work bus as a whole long list of bus which will get to see in theory he goes a theory if you can determine the exact amount of interference that will be encountered along the signal path then you should be able to pre-code the signal such that it will cancel out that interference and a specific given point along that path so in addition to that it should be possible to overlay signals in the same frequency from two different 234 multiple points of origin and have them overlap in a specific point in space giving you I suppose the one of a better term hotspot in space the art as they cause a bubble is not bubble obviously but Yates nice to think of it like a bubble is a radio hotspot where all the source signals converge in phase the additive all the noises in their individual travels have been cancelled out so you get a nice clear crisp strong signal that what that's what really is trying to do and I thought the two weeks about the best way to convert an analogy to this is kind of weird concept the best I can come up with a given analogy and not say where the analogy is wrong okay okay I gotta try something so imagine a perfectly flat smooth piece of sheet steel perfectly flat perfectly smooth it's on angle then take you say you hammer whatever put 100 dents in the damn thing warp at slightly but most importantly for small holes somewhere near the bottom in the middle the whole represents your mobile device represents the bubble hotspot if you will now so we got three P waves so will put three drops of water at the top of the sheet and whatever spacing doesn't matter sees the idea if you could map out and figure out the path that would take to get it from the top of the sheet such that it would ricochet off all those little imperfections and make its way down towards the whole use all the dents and bends and walks in the thing to guide the water from a starting point down into the hole you would get three drops coalescing in the whole when they reach the whole so all that radio energy would find its way down there now less a little bit of a crazy analogy but it gets you the visualisation working in your head you initially think of our unilateral puzzles arm and all toys were to the Gordon barks and you have some ballbearings in it to me is and you can turn the X and Y axes rate you are in the father and Mr Lee less, that are now seems close to me it's a little bit like that I guess but that the point is that in this case you got multiple bikers arm versions of and that you and that thing the probably analogy is in the real world there's always loss so that means there is no perfect sheet of steel so obviously as the drops travel down the piece of steel somewhat is going to stick some molecules will stick and stay behind some of your stay in some of the little dents and cracks and parts of those summers molecules will never make it to the whole and in that problem in our next problem is of course surface tension is the water droplets hold together with water we with surface tension so if there was no service tension eliminate that it will do is go flat and it was simply rundown flat may be no droplets no nothingness be of a film of the water molecules going down the sheet and that's more like radio waves sort of radio waves are expanding from a starting position and they expanding free space as they move as they propagate so again that is words different but if you excuse by those little defects the analogy sorter makes the point I'm starting in three different locations with the same amount of energy not all it's gonna get to the receiver but the more I add the more drops of water I add the more signal power I can eventually get the problems also should be obvious and that is that there are some signal paths where I may not be able to get a path or path I'll get is so bad that the drop will never get to the hole and I was is not possible to correct the signal to make it to the receiver so it's not you that's why like the analogies it's a good way of visualising some of the issues everyone is dents every one of those imperfections and that she is still represent interference but if you know what they are beforehand you can correct for them so here's the other peers the thing right in order to pull this off every transmitter needs to know whatever every other transmitter is doing the same physical space as well as a very accurate location of the receiver with very accurate path information from each receiver each transmitter sorry that the P waves as well as detail about how the source signals being interfered with the law things you know in addition each P-wave has a precisely located three commercial space for the trailers to be accurate assuming they are using strangulation because the other doing it without that obviously the more base stations the more energy the better result again resend that is no details on how the doing time synchronisation now the way GPS works as it uses atomic clocks to encode the data that is going out to the signal atomic clocks were set when before they were launched from a common master clock and icings are incredibly accurate to the point at which they can to accurately test Einstein some relativity theory and have done an SLA figure refigured outside of our signal strength it's about the encoded time on the clocks and that's how the GPS figures out your position it can't possess figure out your position above ground without without three satellites can't do it with one can't do it with Tony 34 is better fibres better still the more you add the more accurate gets again unlike existing cellular say because have one anonymous transceiver transmits River 01 P-wave and we promise of need have a lot of the other really big issue and perhaps the one part likes to get hung up on more than that assume you can get the GPS position of all P waves assume you're trying relation works assuming the position accurate again that's all good lovely guess what my biggest problem is the noise the interference it's not continuous there are all sorts of different kinds of noise you got continuous semicontinuous interference or sporadic interference so you get sporadic noise all the time anyone turns a slick and a light switch every 24 glycogen as an arc of electrical current watercourses that current surge causes RF energy to be released only very small but doesn't need to be that much in order interfere with certain signals able spewed out across the frequency band now the bigger the bigger contact the bigger switch them all the noise the more powerful the signal goes like gum 50 Hz harm or 6460 Hz hum the old power supplies would run of those frequencies average rectifies and what they are switching noise which noise creates a harm you know the background yet at that radio noise you continue any that you can hear the harmonics of that spread across the frequency range gave it a well shielded device that's fine switch mode power supplies a switch for regular hertz you tune you get spectrum analyser outlets in the midst of signals getting modulation products for the night you and have noise all over the place so the thing is that that's actually sought a continuous noise but the 18 switch on and off the wall you know there's all sorts of different sources of radio ANS city it's unbelievable so how can you accurately compensate if it's always changing and the key is to find a way in latency that's that's the key so how do you do this they are the suggested and this is where it gets into the how on earth would we do this part where I can't prove what they're doing so the method of driving feedback isn't known yes based on a few theories I've read my understanding of Elsie is they think that isn't there is a part of it it supports our own time division duplex so TDL teats TDD LTE, to tongue listing acronym arm basically by returning the path information on that uplink channel when you are communicating with the base station and not all LTE phones have that that's why said they say claim one it was all LTE phones this is the most likely way to transmit this information not how could be wrong but if we assume that I'm not wrong and that other people suggest is not wrong then that means not all of them do support model financial support even of the LTE and I would suggest that's probably the case phones will have like the five S5 Steve got it anyway arm also be supported by the year the carrier as well I am not going to go through the mathematics and the reason I go to the mathematics is because work week heading up towards a two hour mark and is honestly it's speculative anyway the new map and examine her year the new mathematics and is this is not a mass pod casts I'm sorry but it's not as you will is no mass pod casts a talk that makes these vectors and complex numbers in the past transform skull role-play sorry and can help you arm as much as I love maths and everything arm pass supervisor say lots of matrices determines and transforms later and pre-coding could theoretically work mathematically provide your source data is good that Imran in his article goes through several examples using existing pre-coding techniques but in the end it's really speculative he doesn't know sure what they're doing now on outside arms knows what the doing so will only that but there now it works so well indoors because everything was line of sight between the transmitters and receivers there were minimal reflections presumably we do not frequency their ensemble as a presumably there is no reflections and has minimal interference between are from external radio sources now you're inside a building it's got some degree of schooling for all we know the rooms they did the demos in had had more shielding I don't know you don't know that but I guarantee you that be a little bit quieter than outside on top of the building we are fully exposed the past characteristics and those test rooms would be unchanged pretty much during a test there is no one else interfering with that room those it's it's a pretty safe quite relatively quiet environment their movement of device that area would not change those compensated values very much either because you're not moving and very far in the demos you move up and down the left and right. Move the more than a couple of inches yes what happens if you go too fast and some of the blogs addresses I worked up about 70 mph again theoretical we don't know that they didn't demo at 70 miles an hour so we are not that's true however you have to think that if you move too fast it could lose its position locker where you are or the channel state information could change too quickly for you compensate the other problem is that the data was likely travelling through a 10 Gb or at least even a gigabit ethernet switch from the same ethernet switch in the demos now that means you have incredibly low latency and that's great that's what you need because every little delay means your your sample data for the interference on the path is getting stale the longer you delay the less useful that Darius right so what you do you need to calculate is as low as possible test environment that is easy everything is one of the same damn switch property gigabit Switch property 10 Gb Switch whatever crunches it out gets the data back everyone smiles you go and do that on a commercial telcos network I guarantee the latency will not be a good especially if using these awesome microwave backhaul is only I guarantee the latency on most microwave systems will not be quite as good we close not quite as good as fibre so again I find that that could be an issue finally before we wrap up a conclusion is there was a comment on IEEE Spectrum article link machine as I got that link via an entrance of the camera guy commented by the name of Sue Joyner and his skin because he says that this show notes so yellowish ice as a link is this comment at the time ice) was the second comment down benefit will still be a second compilation of comments threading while rubbish is promised us and I cannot believe IEEE Spectrum has posted this article if there is one comment about all of this stuff that you want to read that his comment goes about four paragraphs and he highlights all lotta the issues I've highlighted me not all of them some of them but he also highlighted concern was scalability centralised server and backhaul problems because it occurs to me all this data information coming back about interference this happened to the paths were all adults to get back to the server really quickly it can be crushed on the server and then that the has to go to the transmitters for the signal be transmitted back again every single link and that Shane introduces latency only Matilda computational latency because you still run this through a whole bunch of FFT's I'm assuming me I don't know how is it work with the soft radiators no details okay is only some kind a series of mathematical transforms and can be done matrix transformations by bulbar or muscular happen in a very low latency environment for it to work and one at the back all men traditionally these are highly compressed signals David's voice is located down at most 13… Second so you either have decent buckles to these are the P waves and you so I wrap this up now because sweeping down while it's an amazing demo but frankly the several things I could have done to cut back on obvious holes that they are being well but they could be accused of and my accusing them of the I'm suggesting that they could be problems so honestly they could have done more yellow I'm sceptical of Coleman's ability to maintain a business basin's track record even if what he creates is good and it works I'm just concerned that from a business model point of view whether or not the business will be sustainable when I telcos are by end of this whether not he will get the mass deployments because this track record is not been stellar in that regard I have concerns about the latency that the system can handle in the backhaul and hence its feasibility in a real-world scenario we are low latency from your complete control over the network different story if you know what maybe maybe this drives an upgrade of the backhaul system monitor dinner maybe well maybe is that good that well but for the moment existing networks just retrofitting that only and not so convinced I also have concern that all LT devices would work with it as I said not all them support some of the things that we set that I think people also have said what most likely only required can't validate that but I would suggest they could be an issue but we won't know till it's released really a larger scale is the case is not a was mailed iPhone 5 S and 5C will work with every Aussie phone not sure it will and of course I have concerns that technology will not scale and work with thousands of users there are limitations on walls and these devices but they don't have not mentioned in the question will be do those walls and limitations are do they counterbalance the cost upfront doing it and the additional bandwidth doing and using this method of transmitting using this method so ultimately watch this space PSO is not publicly available technology there is no document the driver derives exactly how it works and until such document exists until such time as in in 6 to 12 months or longer that information becomes publicly available arm you I would see a full-time physio time the future where we would revisit this discussion as more facts come to light burst one-time that's my take on it that's my expiration how I think it works and is hopefully that's been of benefit to somebody or interest is still with me Ben I still with you I was just just double checking arm on their say where the their claim to be protected by a bright portfolio of fundamental patterns but US and internationally good for them which aims at that apparently people haven't been able to turn up at patterns in the bands even if that is true in patterns do not equal income so revenue rose so it's all well and good apparently still examine the one by and his only ever Spectrum crunches five years off was great they got five years to replicate some of the follies to replicate this element in Ireland anyway here watch this space and delay a sense a different business model evolving could see them going to always be at some sceptical deal it's it's hard not to be still smells it's easy to be sceptical when you been doing this for a while because my mind I want to ask you and I worry about it but so see you wrong where would you think you might be wrong late where were wary due where would you know where words your own doubt you have any my area of areas of doubt are really two the first one is how much dynamically changing interference effects this that the usability of this technology this technique may well be that sporadic interference is not a problem and that you do not need are like channel paths have consistent coefficients such that you don't need to correct as frequently as I'm expecting you would perhaps in a real-world environment it's not as bad as I'm thinking arm that's not my first area on the I'm not so sure of an element so sure of is are the positioning and a positional accuracy but I just I keep telling having how else could they be doing unless each artist receiver is set up like a GPS satellite is you with a women with an atomic accuracy clock which if they are DMA would be expensive yes I I like to go back on that maybe there is things in as I asked people meet you collectively anything that we could be missing obviously are there is a lot that I didn't explain and is elements of this that I haven't gone into an in-depth because simply there's a lot to know and frankly you know this was a big one very similar research wasn't yet III had I've not had any record of research time on this one but you know what that's okay arm I find the subject to be fascinating and I would like nothing better than to be wrong and that this actually is the future but you know what it sounds like a bit of a pipedream but you know if you could solve the latency and he could get the accuracy good enough then it should work better think it should work theoretically should work and if that's true if this doesn't deliver then maybe someday in 10 1520 years time maybe someday this will work and maybe this will be the future and that's the sort of thing that I find the most fascinating beyond whether PSL does actually work will not arm on you it is it set up an amazing fascinating idea and again on local Star Trek reference area done often to the art I knew was arm is either starve the movie of the Star Trek tour such as freeware arm Darling still assessed arm out loud and Scott is in earshot he says that the Excelsior exposed to have transport drive home and Scotty log glasses as you're out of my grammar that will she be awakened and go then that's when Cosa likes says you are young minds fresh ideas in a site well maybe I am this is the thing I look at technology like this through the lens of someone that's been dealing with narrowband and CDMA technology for years and is I'm looking at this women from that angle you and why am I now the old dinosaur looking at this new technology and shaking my head saying of his younger this young technologies on a work in as I am mindful of that bias and honestly if I can pull off the restrictions I think they've got then theoretically it should be possible to whether or not this product can deliver on what promises I am still sceptical and watch this space I no longer be watching these guys very closely now and I'm can't wait to see if this succeeds an asset call we happening is not like more about this you can find John on Twitter at giant UG seminar but that anti-checkout translate that distortion I can't imagine we have of these honest lobbies of the armed regulators and email you consent to giant exertion are calm and I'm Ben Alexander at Deluxe at an violent pragmatic view on Twitter or pragmatic on this is Jonathan's another early materials and size they are fun thank you to the corresponding service of the closing of an thanks Ben thanks for staying with everybody�
Duration 1 hour, 57 minutes and 55 seconds Direct Download

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Ben Alexander

Ben Alexander

Ben created and runs and Fiat Lux

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, programmer, podcaster and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John has produced and appeared on many podcasts as well as Pragmatic.

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