Pragmatic 52: Your Mileage May Vary

8 January, 2015

CURRENT

Are electric cars going to save you money? We look at all electric and plugin hybrids, charging habits and being energy independent.

Transcript available
Welcome to pragmatic pragmatic as a weekly discussion show concertina practical application of technology exploring the real-world trade-offs we look at how great ideas are transformed into products and services can change our lives nothing is as simple as it seems this episode is sponsored by safety impact on the iOS shopping shop is a collaborative shopping was that the simple and easy-to-use with great features like pocket locks smart ordering and real-time collaborative updating shopping lists aren't to-do lists and shopping doesn't just help you organise your shopping items it helps you shopping from start to finish it's free and the iOS App Store so check it out at safety and that S a P I ENT – pair is into.com/pragmatic for more information this episode is also sponsored by igloo and intranet you're actually like built with easy-to-use apps like filesharing blogs calendars task management and lots more visit igloo software or one word.com/pragmatic to get started it's free to use for up to 10 people will be talking more about them during the show on your host John Geagea and I'm joined once again by my co-host Vic Hudson has gone Vic good John Harriet very good sir very good happy to have a new year and having 2015 yes fantastic is an arbitrary date that night it is so I believe that I have your protruding happy arbitrary data should say indeed quite right that it is always a balance between what I think and what's expected of me to say so it's expected me to say happy new year so happy new year they go arbitrary date good so I would love for us to talk about something that I've done a lot of research into and I don't just mean for this episode I mean over the last five years or longer because one thing is I've always love the idea of is being less dependent as in from an energy point of view so arm and I is most things it is an electrical engineer I think about it quite a lot and I want to be able to be independent from things like the price of coal which drives the price of electricity well is in Australia anyway arm and the price of oil which drives the price petrol which you drive the price of getting around so I love the idea of energy independence and I love the idea of solar and wind power and ivory talk about is in the battery problem which is episode two and the four follow-up episodes to that but specifically today I want to talk about vehicles and specifically electric arm hybrid plug-ins and their cost effectiveness versus petrol vehicles so what you think sound like an interesting topic to explore it with blood nice okay I have to start out the blocks with a very very important caveat I am not gonna talk about environmental impact and for all use listening right now screaming at me arm there's a good reason there is a backseat is a bunch of good reasons why not the problem I've got is that beyond the argument of other components of the vehicles petrol verses are electric are they in and of themselves environmentally friendly or not really the only difference between them is one doesn't have oil oil is bad and I mean oil in the engine I don't mean the petrol the diesel or gas gasoline whatever you call it I'm talking about the oil and talking about you know all the waste byproduct from the carbon dioxide that is bad lithium is not necessarily such a good thing either or it is highly reactive but you know it's not as bad as is as heavy metals but it's still not something you won't be sucking on arm but then again are you the electricity housing generated and unless you are personally guaranteeing that electricity has been generated through environmentally friendly means well also sought to interpret yet exactly and even if you have done it with solar panels and you got boundaries and everything how are they manufactured with a manufactured entirely in their entirety with renewable energy only guarantee that they weren't wide because they got lithium out of the mine how big lithium out on the back of the big truck was that big truck driven by electricity that was generated by electric Bob I am energy renewable means no I'm pretty damn sure it wasn't in a salute there's the Amalie was done in overland conveyor belt made up was done from electricity was that electricity that they were using and how far do you want to go how pure do you want to be it's what it's kinda like the idea was the colour of money what is the colour of the electrons I know you know I don't I want to go down that road because the answer is so complex to the point which becomes almost ridiculous I think because of the title of this show that it should be a far more pragmatic position insofar as is this decision going to be better for me what the trade-offs that to me is interesting if you are taken environmental standpoint then this is the wrong show because I don't I don't think that there is a convincing argument either way for the environmental contribution people will tell you I've so much better with electric because it's it's it's a environmentally friendly was like old like a reality check that the rubber in the ties yard than a biodegradable rights and you have that out of what songs you shift to a hover car and in a cave then distorting gravity we can't do that yet whilst those we know we can't do that yet maybe some secret government thing I know whatever the point is that the ad that that loan is a difference that you still do is to need tyres recently all the plastic system all the vinyls and where does it end at what point is it end LOL range over this just out of the scope of this program yes so honestly arm may be in so see it as the thought occurs to me that in in so writing that just then that I've actually have in essence covered it but I well anyway that's all say about environmental impacts to me arm it can't hurt but I think people overstate just how big an environmental improvement it is our I think it's definitely a sustainable improvement with a more sustainable improvement perhaps of the eight a more sustainable improvement going to an electric bass system but you know qualifying that is nearly impossible here or in its ability for it to really effectively pay often and to have true accumulated net gains from it that there's a lot of advancements that still need to be made in technology and specifically in price yet so that adoption can be more widespread because that's when all really see the benefits from and I think absolutely agree with you completely and we can talk about costs is a big part of this because it's all about the money and when I make a decision like this I do I buy an electric car I've been toying with this idea for years it seems like such a great idea but then you dig into the figures now set on the show before previously about you know I Ashley have a 5 kW armed photovoltaic system on my house it offsets our myalgia is the I still have knowledge as the bill every month because it's a grid connect system and and unfortunately my after-hours consumption exceeds the amount of power that I put back on the grid because the feed in tariff is so terrible I'll talk about that later but the bottom line is that I'm not independent of the grid so for me a decision like this has to stack up financially if it doesn't I'm not doing and that is why want to do this topic so that's enough of the pseudo-massive BS it's time to get into it so to vehicles arm that I want a sort of I want to consider a petrol verses and allow an all electric and albino main focus of the episode but I also need to talk about a few of the other combinations when a focus on two cars specifically and the reason is a while it's the purposes of comparison similar curb weights similar performance different manufacturers though our hands when a look at the pros and cons of each of them so before we go before we get stuck into that too much we have to do a baseline for energy so that's what the price of energy and this is a course fuzzy and causes fuzzy why because things as simple as you'd like it to be right now so on until about two places that I know multiplies the lives USA and Australia seem fair enough I realise that there is Europe I realise that Europe is arm a massive area of arm like they've got a lot of hydro over there in certain countries which affect the price of electricity in a good way they also have a lot of other infrastructures of the population density and you know interconnect systems between countries and and and that that the petrol and the deed the gasoline and diesel over there is very expensive and kind of analogous to hear but you know what I have to draw a line somewhere I realise the global pod cast and I'm not dismissing Europe so please arm my European listeners arm I I am not dissing you I love you that's okay art but you know what I would love to hear from you guys about any cost trade-offs once we go through the mouth after the show and we made a small follow-up on that because I think it is definitely worth exploring artist had to draw the line somewhere so in America average electricity price in 2011 was $0.12 per kilowatt hour – the average now the maximum was $0.33 per kilowatt hour garages which state that was in I'm gotta get something cattle isolated enrolling away Alaska see you are a genius I keep telling your Hawaii spot on yes now in Queensland we are also equally in the middle of nowhere whereas this with his wee little island down on them in the Pacific somewhere and we pay in Queensland I pay $0.28 per kilowatt hour so slightly less than Hawaii now that's what we call tariff 11 which is standard tariff harm hearing aid during peak periods need can get lower rate tariffs depending upon who you sign up with some providers will give you different tariffs are tariff and of course meaning a different rate of payment per kilowatt hour and tariffs are usually four specific utilisations so let's say that you've got a hot water system and a hot water system has an electric booster on it and that booster are so some people have an all electric system ours is not ours is a solar system with an electric booster so the idea is that during the day time in over the water gets up temperature through sunlight and the thermostat will then kick in only if required if the water temperature is below a certain level it will kick in during what I call nitrate off-peak which is a much cheaper rate than that will boost up the water tap registers in the morning have nice warm showers sometime it barely happens wintertime happens pretty much every day this is not enough sunlight during the day: the water temperature that is acceptable and that's fine so anyway when he's an average of those three prices arm an average of an average an average of a peak and the average of the the Australian are the Queensland price why because I have to have some kind of averaging going on here because they're such a wide variation you may not sound like a wide variation $0.12-$0.33 being arranged that actually so demonstrable it's huge when you multiply it by hundreds of kilowatt hours like the average consumption states are something like average households and 900 kWh a month so that amplifies it significantly okay so average price we run with this $0.22 that US per kilowatt hour okay now is to about gasoline so gasoline prices in the USA and is I just realise I said that like the guy a mad Max is in mathematics as it looks I got myself some gasoline a and is always stuck in my mind like hell pronounces that like that that might okay so Hawaii again horribly horribly expensive to live in Hawaii but it seemed pretty when I passed through anyway three dollars are so 3.463 US per gallon now in Australian and litres in metric that is $1.13 one or in Australia yet we we would not say $1.01 31 we would say 113.1 sites like 100 and $0.13 point with a .1 the end whereas in North America were you guys tend to do the fraction thing so I got to the to the ER to the gas station in North America fill up and it's like I would some you know 117 9/10 might you do realise that .9 takes up less physical space than 9/10 but but then because although all the mile boards are all the same, things like its next quarter mile was error you'd never see fractions on signs is don't get psyched in 0.25.5 kilometres there we seem to have a penchant for wanting to interject an unnecessary method that is it that Americans obviously can handle fractions and Australians can't and that's what I draw from that so whatever I don't get it anyway whatever he gets the point is that it's as well as all subtle differences that makes it all very very interesting as a programmer I ever over an appreciation for ain metric system Yahoo wallets I am not going to the whole metric versus 20 Imperial thing and that I don't think I'll ever did as a topic that is can make some people angry anyway okay so the range of gasoline prices I also have the lowest price in Missouri go Missouri okay it's our $1.01 .846 US per gallon that works out to 60.3 cents in Australian dollars per litre which is insanely cheap to me so current petrol prices in Australia arm capital price as of today when I did when I checked it is our 121.9 per litre which works out at $3.73 US per gallon so are out she our average petrol price Australia is higher than the most expensive state in America so hey and before I say in trumpet that that such a horribly expensive oh how difficult our life isn't blah blah no Europe have a worse so open the much worse so as I said before God draw lines so hard okay so agrees an average of those because well why not plus on average it to a round number is only going around number in one set of currencies and measurements so the old number will not be round because whilst I didn't come up with litres or gallons or the current exchange rates are three dollars US per gallon is what you run with 98.2 arm Australian dollars per litre and that is also ridiculously cheap although are in the last week with the price drop in the price of crude oil because oh heaven forbid they're making too much and therefore not getting rich and offered as worries I hate oil and I hate the oil companies up to a point arm it's like Yates it's just if you try to manipulate the stock market in a way to manipulate oil prices you go to jail is better definitely it maketh me angry with okay so that's our baseline all prior all dollar value comparisons will vary and and that leads to the first caveat in everything that comes from this point forward in this conversation is obviously the prices will vary depending upon where you live specifically depending upon our what's going to happen with inflation that the value of our the Australian dollar was the US dollar versus the yard that Euro are you versus whatever currency you working in you is a supply demand thing with oil electricity is no different in the more it gets deregulated the more complicated its pricing gets so obviously your mileage will vary our monitoring of that was the worst in the worst dad Jacob ever told the's gold fish is terrible okay so without further ado and I would give a fake drum roll but that's just sad and tedious onlooker do that all electric versus petrol which is where we have to start the two primary models I want to compare now obviously there are lots of models of cars I could've chosen lots of different ones but I decided to go with a small car and the reason is that I realise that in North America there is a arm over a segment of the populace that goes for the big pickup trucks and the big SUVs in the big vehicles of big engines and MRM ornaments the ham fest in 90 our glacial water Hammerfest way back in high 97 and I was dry around is guys arm doubting it was a shabby Colorado and if this thing how like a V8 God knows how many you know litre engine enormous engine had had a twin exhaust tailpipe on each side you not mean you and the whole thing had this massive global form form form from conifer thumping noise to its engine and a site every single stroke I could hear the petrol screaming you know it's like there we we have we ever freeze around here arm probably relatively prevalent throughout the US but definitely whaler we so you can feel the suction in your back pocket as you push the gas bill that's good alive and they are like that are and yet it's like and ends I realise that to some extent that's a stereotype that to some extent it is and see when I lived in Calgary and Calgary of course being you, very much like Montana in a lot of ways is that that part of the world the percentage of pickup trucks and large vehicles & is much higher than if you go to someone like Los Angeles are you all or New York as well because bigger vehicles much hard manoeuvre and an petrol cost more in the bigger current bigger cities generally got a generalisation go watch that anyhow truth is that's arm I was driving around a Subaru Impreza because it was back when I was young and I had money to buy a nice car anyhow mine that married mortgage kids today are so no are now drive jazz allotment as though still are anyway signed I miss them this car right now and the Impreza is a pseudo-sports car are and CA is very good and in the world right image of nicer rubbish mine was a non-turbocharged versions before you thought I had like a fully specked adverse I didn't but mine was tiny and I was always surrounded by these enormous cars so I sort of modest part of my experience in my view of North America was tainted by where I spent most of my time and I realised a stereotype and I also realise that in recent years it's by lots happened since then so there's been a Gulf War and soul and so forth and price of oil is gone done crazy stuff but you appear Americans now arm and it is not been at the time the last year but it happened gradually over the last few decades is that you the value of smaller vehicles and more fuel economical vehicles is being recognised and you don't need to have the big pickup truck you need to have a V6 or V8 yard to get around you need to have some degree of fuel economy so I'm choosing a smaller car because I think that statistically are it's the easiest comparison for the electric cars and versus the small cars that that the normal person would buy whatever a normal person is okay so first car electric is can be the Nissen leaf the throbbing on the surprises at the well the way you pronounce Nice and was a surprise me sign leaf is a better are that this would have familiar with right back to Nissen Soviet leader is missing the senescent right the other while I compare it up against is amassed a three the four-door version simply because I had to specify because there's like three matters the three models which is kind of funny actually when I think about it but still arm the matter to was a little bit too small arm was a massive three is more comparable in size and curb weight to a Nissen leaf so he take the weight of the battery pack out are then the Nissen leaf and the master essentially have about the same curb weight and to be surprised how light engines are these days so arm it's close enough for all for this comparison if that makes sense okay before I actually start going to the specifics I'd like to do is pause for a moment and talk about our first sponsor for this episode and that's safety and pair now saving. Decided after years of being annoyed with the existing to-do labs out to do apps out there that when I was shopping they create an iOS app for the iPhone called shopping because because there are so many to do list apps out there and I use a lot of them over years for shopping lists but shopping is a very specific use case for a list and if you shopping for more than just yourself shopping can really really begins to shine the best way to describe shopping is a fully collaborative shopping list app it's simple and easy-to-use I picked up figure how to use it immediately is not cluttered with options doesn't presume you live in a specific country or present you with hundreds of options for butter or milk different brands and someone doesn't do that you just type in what you want to remember buying a list and the amount if you want that's optional and there's a list it remembers what you've entered the future it remembers the order that you enter it as well as the order you buy such that when you repopulate the list it's warm weighty set up the way that she would like so that's cool enough but when you share your shopping list by email I messaged you and so on to your spouse your partner your kids hopefully they don't add different unsavoury foods and that should be in less they can then add Mark off and reorder items and less as they see fit yellow so I've tried this in real time between two iPhones in the sink happened in less than three seconds over 3G it was fast the other there's a lot of other features are really awesome one is called pocket lock and I love it it's great if you're security conscious and you've got a pass code set on your phone there's nothing more annoying than having to lock your phone slip in your pocket get back out again at the end of the I'll just unlock it again to look at the list again they could argue that saw touch IDE makes a little bit easier but honestly why do that when you can use pocket lock which is even quicker again what pocket lock does is that it detects when it's in your pocket and it disables the screen and it really enables the screen when it is removed no passcodes no touch ID no fuss it's fast and it works really really well now my wife and I with you several times now with privileges and every time we go shopping at this point are where we used to note things and reminders to do apps or even on paper Company that anyway now when we go when I was go shopping you shopping so we are open up shop and indicate you about start shopping then the geolocation detects the store that your shopping at Anna and on our shared list the other person will then get a notification about that you're about start shopping when you say I'm about start shopping well it'll do let them know and if they then remember all no need to grab milk or something like that are almost at eggs you can take and tap that notification jump in the shed list straightaway and quickly add then it'll be on my list and I can grab it while on their experience so simple simple idea that works really well so that less last-minute phone calls as anything else she will make the shops all that just disappears don't need any more because shopping does that so it's free to try for the first month nomads after which it becomes unsupported there is no risk Alice functionality that's it it it works fine but if you want to help out the developers you can in our purchase of 312 month add removal for a dollar 99 or $4.09 nine US respectively now the update for bioassay in the iPhone 6 in six classes is now live in the store and also have features are a handy reachability features like pulldown to add new items and this is a fresh coat of paint high-res graphics all that stuff and now you can also move check times the bottom of the listed decline of the like those longer lists there please visit this URL safety and that SAPI ENT – pair is into.com/pragmatic and fatherless the App Store from there and that will help out the show is certainly up a story like if you follow that URL in your browser choice it will help out the show it's really is a great at and I'm very grateful for safety in pairs continuing to support pragmatic okay facts and figures might it's time is it time to time with groups of numbers Nissen leaf has a 24 kW battery pack is its capacity arm to be the more the details if you're interested 48 modules there's for lithium ion cells in each module that gives you a total of hundred 92 lithium ion cells now it comes with a 3.3 kW charger as standard you can get an optional 6.6 kW charger twice the size and what that works out to is you've got 24 kW in the battery pack of capacity got a 3.3 kW charger that works out to about eight hours of time to fully charge now yet is slightly longer than the maths would work out to because of course the charger is not home hundred percent efficient and of course the battery is not also a percent efficient either it's close but it will reduce the final charging time you home anywhere between 10 to 20% depending upon conditions it's not exact so let's call it about eight hours also depends on life and health of the battery there 6.6 charger takes down about five hours so you know that's that's what you're looking at now standard arm 3.3 kW over the eight hour period using our standard which is 22's US cents per kilowatt hour works out to arm $5.80 to charge this the cemetery costs so the car itself US dollars $21,510 now let's keep in mind there are rebates in that let's keep in mind also that that various pylons based on individual state taxes so again the price will vary slightly but note let's run with that figure the other figure that is interesting is that you can get a brand-new battery pack for 5 1/2 thousand US doesn't take much to figure out that that's about one quarter of the cost of the vehicle is the battery pack so hold that thought keep that in mind let's talk about value for money in terms of your energy you will get core of real-world range arm again his regrets fuzzy lithium ion batteries like any batteries will last longer if you don't fully discharge them though also last longer if you don't are if you if you don't overcharge them and you don't charge them constantly so that's what I have protective circuits built into them so that you can't overcharge them because overcharging was a big problem way back when but now electrons reach the point where they'll put the control chip to provide feedback in the battery itself and logged easily in my batteries now actually have you a data connection as well as a power connection so that the battery communicates with the charger such that it does no charge the batteries and the temperature sensors and other things actually get too hot although the good stuff so there's a lot of protection built in because you overheat with mine battery overcharge with my battery it might bulge it might explode it might be fire more than likely catch on fire and that's a bad outcome generally speaking you should electronic than the car which i don't get any okay so hundred 6 km which works out about 66 miles of range but that's if you go for the long life of the battery pack which is a discharge not beyond 80% so the settings you can say only go for long long battery life so i'm gonna go with that because if you don't do that you can kill your battery and then it no longer becomes comparable to a petrol car so we stick with those figures for that reason it is also interesting to point out that this that the volume of the psyd the cost of that battery pack replacement is contingent on the fact that the old battery is traded in because the old battery when it is traded in they will subsidise that by recovering in recycling the lithium that is in the old battery so the truth is the raw cost of that battery pack is actually higher than that 5 1/2 grand cs diskeeper my site if you know me so it should be used that any wavelet here in the us are at least even with a traditional gasoline engine, when you when you buy a new battery for it there is what we call records origin if you don't trade in your old battery then you pay more for you no one shop exactly it's exactly the same thing so the point and are the reason i mention that is that that is and does not track for an engine so if you replace the engine of the vehicle and melted down you not gonna get much you know the value in the engine is in the casting of the block and all that staff in the machine any machining and now that that's that's the cost whereas with the battery it is that the cost of the material the lithium itself is the cost yet okay so warranty on an incident on a missile leaf eight years or 100,000 miles that's the warranty on the battery the way the vehicle is £3243 which is approximately 1.5 psi one half tons mass the three now four-door so it weighs £2866 which is about 350 £400 less 1.3 tons which is if you look at the way the battery out in liverpool pull that out that's roughly the way the battery as mentioned earlier that's for the 1.5 l four-cylinder four-door model petrol engine now because i did accost the battery for my instinct to try and figure out the cost of a replacement engine because that's kind of the literal the essential equivalent parallel yet it is and i say essential not because the problem is that the powerplants is kind of a weird constructed because the engine goes through a gearbox and clutch in manner and all at staff drives the wheels whereas the battery provides all the energy energies goes through variables that go with the variable speed drive then drives electric motors a lot of people are realised but electric motors especially ac induction motors which is typically what i use they don't break you know unless something really severely goes wrong likely to damage the installation gets damaged or something like that or there's a massive currents are current flow through the for some reason they just don't die yet i mean the only thing really mechanical to mrs a few bearings is in it really you that's it so they would wear out the bearings whereas at the same rate as bearings are wary of any normal car in our catlike cv joints and like that but you because these cars are the way they are they don't like this was an electric ones allow the cv joints in them because the electric motors and instead of the way that couples least i'm pretty sure they don't someone will correct me if i'm wrong about that so the point is that the best analogue equivalents of the two is the battery pack versus the engine which is why making a comparison however finding accurate data and i was in a hurry i realise that if i dug and i called up a few dealerships in and it made a few inquiries i could probably find out the exact price but for the purposes of this comparison all i did as i found a 2 1/2 l petrol master engine it was from mid 90s model so is not current production model is an old engine they probably gone down a run of them they've now & oliver on a site locally here is $1000 for the engine but when you consider the age of it and that the sort of engineers and so on ice fully suspect that it will be at least double that for a modern engine and then you gotta fit the damn thing and replacing the batteries a hell of a lot quicker and easier than replacing an engine so our i'm in a can conservatively estimated living is conservative i'd like to have a better number but i don't that's about $3000 to replace the engine in a and i think that that's probably on the light side it is likely to be more than that so the vet as the three itself not including state taxes you looking at $16,945 that's our us and that works at 23 1/2 thousand australian so what is it get it gets 41 miles per gallon and that's handy as highway and that's handy to have attention over calculations later i didn't have that value for the electric is the electric doesn't work quite like that so the warranty is hundred 50,000 miles i hang on lonely retract that's not the warranty sorry there is an expectation with with petrol engines and is i very care for this because it is so variable but with an expectation that hundred 50,000 miles on engine is about where things start to go wrong on a petrol engine that works at about 240,000+ kilometres saw an average life expectancy of a petrol engine and i say that a lot of people can be screaming and if that because i realise there's a massive mixture of of contributing factors it's a mixture of city driving was as highway driving how well it's maintained if you rabbit hi all the times of you start out and if you go ahead and the redline all the damn time because you just well like the sound of an engine screaming you know it's all going to impact on the limb longevity and then of course understood our petrol engines let's not even go down the the discussion of diesel and high compression diesel because you than this people say well your high compression diesel can be no go gotta be worth have worse lifespan than a are a traditional diesel nra is like god so i don't want to go down that road from my personal experience arm i've had a few cars that hit the 300,000 km mark which is about hundred 80,000 miles and their engines were shot you know they need the engineer to be reboard they will any larger cylinders in a it's gone beyond i can split up by reason there and good it's like this thing is had it you gotta recondition the engine and that's cheaper than replacing the engine the one she recondition an engine that you knock and get another 300,000 k is out of this at about 8000 miles not forget that you can get yellow less than that may be 60 to 70% of that value and is not that much cheaper than getting a new engine mostly recondition engines because you just can't get a replacement engine so you know me lonely one so i could get replacement engines as can be recondition and so so therein lies lies a rather interesting comparison right so it's actually cheaper to get like upfront cost to get a petrol car vehicle and it's cheaper to replace the engine whence lifetime is up then it is to do the same with replacing a battery on the electric car which also has a higher purchase price in the beginning so what it needs to be able to do in order to be a good value proposition is cost you significantly less in gasoline in order correctly yet your operational costs have to be lower and if they're not then it's not a value good value proposition so one is i didn't mention i realise is that arm over the cost of the nissen leaf in australia is astronomically high there is no government rebates for a dozen qualifiers luxury vehicle only luxury vehicles get a discount luxury car tax if there electric there is no add the rebates vary in america from state to state but generally there is a rebate in most states for electric vehicles not so here arm which i can block it boggles my mind it can't be far away surely anyway $40,000 australian after the nissen leaf i meant to mention before it's only 21 1/2 thousand us it's practically double that so the exchange rate should set that around about 2425 grants might not 40 so there's a lot of import taxes a lot of you government tax on top of that vehicles in australia are taxed very heavily which sucks anyway okay so with the life expectancies i have, drawn as an equivalent so i said you know what arm a battery packs can last roughly the same time as an engine but the truth is the failure mechanisms are completely different you will start to lose compression in an engine generally is our start to go for fuel economy will be terrible and because essentially as knowledgeable ceiling probably because you all the cylinders rattling around inside the the the block called that's organ erode away needing get it's gonna slip past you knock on a get as high compression or your rings around skill yet exactly so all that's can contribute to poor fuel economy and eventually it's going to start having issues were just won't wait actually sustain enough compression to continue to run it is won't to go over eventually if you let it go that long most of possible booking at the same battle before then muscle to sell the house so are all the park it and let it die i see these icus episodes of hoarders like people hoard their vehicles and is a car park in the in the yard of just dead rusting cars my sister's steerable makes me cry and insight anyway so yet let's assume there about equivalent but but the reality is because batteries will die differently they'll do simply give you less and less range than a sound and that's how they will die so will be used. the corner store and back now i can't be a time to get a new battery pack you know those knock at the same whereat mechanism but it's going to have a similar kind lifespan so will go hundred 50,000 miles a walk will concern about equal yes i know it depends on the battery yes i know say all all the characters gave about a petrol engine exactly the same but the battery pack depends on how much you overcharge it any times you fast charges which will talk about specifically later yet all of that dip varies yea they can be manufacturing defects they could be our damage to the battery pack there's all sorts of things like prolonged exposure to high temperatures just if you live in a hot climate and i don't expect a battery pack in in in divide to last as long as one in the in alaska there are outsiders all sorted out different things different variables and it's very complex but on balance the comparison is relatively good okay so again as i said arm the replacement powerplants for a electric car is about twice the cost of that of a petrol vehicle and i say about because of his can vary by model and it's can vary by and so the list is wrong with that purchase costs about 25% more for electric vehicle over a up an equivalent size weight performance petrol vehicle so now down to brass tacks is it cheaper to run and then we can decide whether or not is the one big waste of time okay summer is the truth i'm afraid it is so we have to have some more assumptions because the problem is it is complex so we have to do write a few things out here let's assume that when not looking at arm money and how we pay for the vehicle right so i know again were comparative of well because it costs 25% more by electric vehicle and that's usually a fun borrow money to buy my carbonates compound interest it's gonna cost me more interest are depreciation rates this vehicle has a higher resale of a than this one look i understand those things yes but let's be honest when we're looking at vehicles at this end of the spectrum the resale values and how much you borrow let's just say assume monday is that the car was bought purchased outright so there is none about on the table that has no interest there is no lean there is no anything on the vehicle and is when we sell the carbonates that we sell the car for an equivalent relative cost for what it was originally worth for the same number of kilometres and so so let's assume on balance that there is no advantage disadvantage either way to that so i take that off the table and just focus on what's left is operational costs okay so let's start by miles dollars per mile encourages the simplest way to compare so it costs as we said $5.80 to get 66 miles arranged for our nissen missile leaf that's essentially's arm 0.087 per mile which is 8.7 cents us per mile now if we look at our miles per gallon at three dollars per gallon us 4/41 miles per gallon that's an easy formula figure out that is 7.3 cents us per mile straightaway on average gasoline is cheaper but there's one thing electric scott going for it that gasoline doesn't i can't make gasoline in my backyard wealth okay i'm assuming i don't have an oil well my backyard and i also don't have a fractional distillation tower my backyard let's just run from assumption that most you don't have those things as a whole refinery care the thing it should be absolutely actually no don't do that i mean i was having in engineering we've got sade that they have lots and lots of where it went wrong videos and i've watched too many of those seconds from disaster like things from the chemical safety board and are different organisations that analyse how these arm refineries end up exploding things like piper alpha and others that texas refinery for bp relying texas view bob few decades ago and looking at the things that went wrong and it's like a home refinery kit is the worst possible idea in a long string of bad ideas with oil so let's not do that please no one's i.e. if a start-up starts up in a few months time and credits me as inspiration to start a home oil openmail and i will give this i will give up this forecast because i am inspiring the wrong people to do the wrong things and it's bad anyway right against enough bs let's focus so i can generate electricity through wind power and through solar power which is something i can't do with oil and that's where i can get my cost savings so let's flip the problem over rather than figure out is arm of i while go all the way and save all and do everything a buyer solar i were all through your written during my own power energy wanadoo is on to say what i need to do how cheap is my lectures need to be in order for me to break even or to be better than our current petrol prices so in order to recover our purchase costs because we spent an additional 4 1/2 thousand us dollars to go electric relate so again going and three dollars per gallon electricity arm electricity there needs to be about half of our assume $0.20 which is our right we obviously there for 11 us cents per kilowatt hour now you first thing you can say as well john the average electricity price and states is actually $0.12 per kilowatt hour which means that the cheapest price therefore logically has to be less than that therefore it means that there are already states in america where it is possible for you to actually have your via your electric vehicle that the one i'm looking at anyway and it will be cheaper to run our or at least breakeven versus a petrol but the key point is not every state because at the price of hse varies and that is of course one of the assumptions we have to make so i guess the guiding factor just on that would be well if i have cheaper electricity then go electric it's gonna work out cheaper because it's not as simple as that because while nothing is no feed of the preamble and the show but the point is that arm in australia nowhere has an interest in a cheap we just don't you think with all the coal would point out a grounded shopping up a chimney you think you think that it would be cheaper but it isn't and the reason is that is because transmission losses and the er consumer base we do not have the economy are scales we have zero nuclear in their which dilutes things a lot we don't will we are very they call us the sunburnt country for a reason we get lots of sunlight great the solar bad the hydro right we simply don't have enough water so you know there's a there's a few hydro schemes as a snowy hydro scheme which is one of the biggest the biggest in australia in the snowy mountains bites are and we also have hydro in tasmania which has a reasonable portion of its allergist degenerate that way but majority of it is generated from coal which is bad you know about australia okay and a cause yes we talked at length before at this i refer you to the battery problem are episodes of the show and the billings mission is to those episodes you go and learn more about those however all is not lost and our before i go any further actually arm and the shipper we talk about our second sponsor of this episode and that igloo software now in engineering i've worked in a lot of companies that use a mishmash collection of different tools to provide basic functionality need to get your job done things i filesharing wikis announcement pages and apartment landing pages there disconnected disorganised and i only ever seen a work within explorer seven and on the company provided desktop which makes me grind my teeth regularly year i.e. seven igloo is an intranet you'll actually like how they bring the ease-of-use from consumer software into your corporate environment by using familiar apps like shared calendars to woodlike microblog is filesharing and lots more everything that you do can be social if you want to be with comments like buttons anyone can add content based on the permissions of cause and with drag-and-drop widgets and a wysiwyg editor is easy to customise everything inside your igloo either globally across a space specifically for your team or even just a single page and if you want more that it will have an in-house team of web developers and graphic designers that can help you customise the platform completely to fit your brand and your business needs now the free trial experience comes preloaded with three templates and asset-based intranet a corporate intranet and a customer community so it gives you those three examples of what it can do for you have a play with and explore but it's not the limit of what it can do we can go well beyond that so once you are in their surprisingly easy to reorganise it to fit what you need to do and face the bills and responsive design works on any device you would choose to use laptop tablet phone all the major browsers including explorer eight and up crime firefox safari and ios and android's native browsers as well they also have dedicated apps on ios android and blackberry so common use case for me out of files igloo and it can be easily shared and seen by others in your igloo if someone wants to edit the file reserve and downloaded make edits and then upload again you pretty straightforward if you change your mind you can release the lock all done through the web browser is version control done automatically and he can add version change information is each time you make a change if you want beyond that you associate tasks with the document to remind other people they need to review it to make comments and lots more it's so much nicer than sharepoint if you're not ready to abandon sharepoint yet that's cool that's fine but wet with igloo you can use sharepoint to archive your documents but you can do the collaboration phase within igloo and that leverages the power of both systems so that for users but what if you're in charge of it what igloo handles a security host imaginal for you their datacentre partner is ssa 16 certified they offer ssl encryption disaster recovery single tenant shared environments and integration with many authentication sync systems including sample services and ldap mid to late last year's 2013 while ides realises 2015 goodness mezzo mid to late 2013 i was working for a star comical project facilitation and based on my experiences trying myself privately we used it for building our own intranet it was really handy at savers will have to develop and try to integrate different pieces we need from all over the place adding a move around the fees we needed was as easy as drag-and-drop and what you see is what you get dismayed so easy to tailor it to the way we wide are with no real develop skills needed and there was a minimal learning curve knee may have heard people talk about igloo in the past but take it from me i have used it it is worth your time to investigate to look into it how can you look into it well it's easy you just visit visit igloo software or one word.com/pragmatic sign up for a trial it's free for groups of up to 10 people is no credit card required no obligation to sign up and have a play today and i say play because honestly doesn't feel like working in when using soap if you like to go and check it out that it be great i like to thank igloo sponsoring pragmatic once again okay so before i go on any further i have to talk about the tesla model s no discussion about electric cars and the current data environment would be complete without talking about tesla so that a suit for facts and figures about the tas and the less animist ultimate usage patterns and and solar in some okay so tesmer alas has a 60 kwh battery pack model and the reason i chose a diverse entry-level model are not negotiated kilowatt model killed our mortgages frankly the one i would buy because it has better range and better performance and has its brief superchargers inside the entry-level models designed to be the cheapest model you can get this is all about cost right so obviously that one for this discussion now again it's expensive in australia it's au$98,000 but in the us including tax credits is 63 1/2 thousand that's not a cheap car that's three times the cost of the nissen leaf but then it's not competing with innocently is not competing with them as the three it is a full-size luxury sedan that's what it is but i have to mention it you know because it's what is an range 208 miles that's again epaaremostthosenumbersarewhichweresetat335kmfullchargeissteak7.2hoursbutthatchargeisat40answertohugebatterypackit'sit'smorethandoublethesizeofthenissenthenissenleafarethat'susingthe10kwchargerandthat'swhatcomesofthe60kwmodelthatandandyoucanpayextratogetdualchargingwhichchargethatatmsbutthatrequiresadifferentwarconnectorthat's20kwchargerandwesettlechargeinslightlymorethanhalfthattimeanddatathatgivesyouatotalof72kwhroughlythecharter60kwhbatterypacknumbersdon'tquiteworkoutquiterightbecauseasisaidbeforeefficienciesandeverythingineedtherealfiguremightactuallybemorelike70kwhbutfindingdefinitivefiguresisdifficultandbesideswhichafullchargequoteunquoteisalsoalittlebitdifficulttodeterminebecauseyoudon'trunthebatteryflatandthenchargeyouknowyou'rerundownlike20%15%andeventhenisa10%is50%isreallynotisitbecausedad0%isstillachargeonitbecauseyoudon'twanttorunaflatbecauseyourkillerbarrysothelessersidesroughlythat70kwhentitledtochargesoabsolutelyitisnotcheaperthanapetrolcarbutisnotafairfightthemodelsisn'tdesignedtobecompetingwiththosetwoothervehiclesonlymentioningitbecauseitgetsalltheairtimeit'sabeautifulvehicleoutofhitleristheelephantintheroombutlet'sbehonestokaycomeonit'sgotfiveseatsyestheyarebigluxuryseatsanditisadamnsexyvehicleisoneofthesafestcarsintheworldisoneofthemostarmisthemosthighlydecoratedifyouarecaughtthatarmcarintheworldatthemomentitisouritishotbutitsureashellfromafunctionalpointofviewdoesnotgetyoufrompointatopointbanybetternotreallythenanissenleaftheonlythingit'sgotthatreserverealleapforwardcomparedtothenissenleafistherangeandsandanaxisiguessthesuperchargednetworkwhichwillgettoaminutebuthonestlyuniteitsit'snotafairfightandi'mnotconsideringluxurymodelsandyetasotherconsiderationswhiledinnertaslymanyouwouldgetithasaproperlybecauseitiscutting-edgeitisveryverysafeitdoeshaveagreatreputationisbeautifuldrivebyallaccountsarmyouitisalovelyvehicleandthereandifyouareintotheeventhoughtheymaybemarginalenvironmentalcredentialsandifyoureallybegintothatthenthat'stotallyareasontogetoneifyouwantthat'sfinebutteslaarenotmakinginroadsbymarketingthemosteconomicalvehicletoanelectricvehicleintheworldthat'snothowtheyaresucceedingtherethesucceedingbytargetingtheluxurysegmentokaywhichiswhyit'snotpartofacomparisonbutihavetomentionitbecauseitissopopularandsuchanamazingvehiclejustdon'tbuyoneexpectingtosavemoneycomparedtoapetrolalessicomparingittosaysimilarlypricedbentleybutifyoupaidusthemoneyforacaryoureallyconcernedwithhowmuchitusesandpetrolprobablyelderlynightyesarmyandirealisethat'sabitofageneralisationmaybemaybeyou'resomeonewhojustloveselectricvehicleshasattheircarispoweredoffthegridyousupportallofyoursavingsintogoingoffgridandyou'vegotourteslanowsothatshouldyounotdependonoilyounotdependonourinterestinyougivingitcompletelyindependentandyouspenteverylastcentofyourmoneythatyou'veworkedhardfortogettothatpointyouknowwhatmyhatsofftoyouifthatifyouarethatpersonthat'sfantasticidon'tthinkthat'samajoritypeoplearebyteslaokaysoelectriccarchargingandusagepatternsthisistheotherreal-worldconsiderationwecanabsolutelyhavetomentiontheusagepatternformostpeopleformostvehiclesisdriveduringthedaychargeovernightwithrevelryofthatsentimentyetmaliceyourshiftworkerormaybeoneofthesedevelopersareneverleavesthehousetheymustbeniceandicanget,confiningawhilelike,i'matworkagain:thatthereisadifferencewhenyou'releavingthatchoicereducesnecessitythatisthatisaveryvalidpointyourcopyrightokaynowlet'sbehonestpartofthisisaboutgasolineinfrastructurehasbeenaroundfor100+yearssotherearemoregasstationsthantherearechargingstationsthatwillchangebutit'salsoconsiderthistherearenotgasstationsevery5feetalongtheroadsidethisconsolidationreasonsandsoonshoreandthereisaninfrastructureissuesurestorageallthatsortofstuffcomesintoplaybutthetruthisyouwillneverhaveachargingoutletwhereveryouchoosetheparkyoujustwon'tandmostdestinationsarenotgoingtohavechargingoutletsforquitesometimemorecroppingupeverydaybutatheywon'tnecessarilybecheapertouseandbethatasthisnevergottobeubiquitousthatisnotsotodayaretakingtheexampleinmyexperiencefromricevinegartimeinnorthamericaisourblockeatersdenyblockareascorpdoyouhaveblockagesinyourneckofthewoodsareyettoiafsoyouwillgotoarmsomesupermarketsyouwillhavethepowerpointspoweroutletsinthearmsupermarketortheofficebuildingsyouworkatyesnoitisnotextremely,butyoudoseemlikeallocationyetthefurthernorthyougotowardsthearcticcirclethemoreprevalentitbecomesandawayfromthecoastlinesobviouslywherethetemperatureswingsareamuchhigherbecauseyoudon'thavethemoderationmoderatingeffectoftheoceanssoapincalgarywhichwasyoungbehindtherockiesandafairwayclosertothearcticcircleandwhereyouliveareiwouldsayprobably1/4ofthebusinessesandshoppingmallshadblockypoweroutletsintheparkinglotsandsomepeoplewouldonlyshopatcertainplacesinthemiddleofwinterbecausetheyhaveblockagesyoutheyhadopenedahrupapointtoplug-infortheirblockheatersubpoenathelistingthatthatthatthisepisodethedonorwillblockitdoesallblockareasisit'saheatingcoilthatkeepsyourenginewarmspecificallytheenginetheoilsumpatthebottomoftheenginetheideaisthatbyheadingthatupbecausetheviscosityoftheoilareifitthickensandlowtemperatureswhichmeanswhenyoukickoverthatenginetheinitialkickthatkillsitwhentheengineiscoldwhatwillhappenisthatthatoilwillnotactuallycoatthepistonssuchthatyouareihavemetalagainstmetalandthereisnolubricationorveryminimallubricationbeforetheenginecomesuptemperaturemayonlytakeafewminutestocomeupthetemperaturebutalotofdamagecanbedoneinthattimesoblockheateravoidsthattheydon'tdrawmassiveamountsofpowerbuttheystilldrawpowerandithinkthatchargingithaslotsthroughablockheateroutletisprobablynotgonnagosowellyoubringastartrippingcircuitbreakersbutyouthetruthisthatthat'swherewearenowwithblockeaterstherenotubiquitousnowevenincalgaryrightnowtodayyougouptoyougrandprairieyougoupseetheyukonthenoctoberubiquitousinnosoifthey'renotubiquitousthenhowcanyouexpectchargingpointsforelectricvehiclestobeubiquitousinanyreasonabletimeframesoidon'tthinkthattheyevergonnabeubiquitousandbyubiquitousimeanipodtothesideoftheroadandicanjustpluginandwhenipluginthegpsinmycarknowswhereiamtheoutlethasmaybeannfcchipinitsuchthatwhenipluginthisthechargingleadtoititidentifiesmyvehiclechargedtomybankaccountandisknownasbswithagoodhaveanaccountwiththisthismodelgotputHeavenforbidputcoinsintothedamnthinginordertogetachargeoutofitinamannerthatisgonnabepluggedintopiteitherknowswhoyouarechargeyourcounselautomaticallydon'tthinkaboutitandeverywhereyouparkhasachargingstationtoyourvehicleandthat'sidealbutisnevergonnahappenijustdon'tthinkit'saexistingreplacingparkcarsideoftheroadinsomeone'sdrivewayyouknowpartcarparcadesaswellasdailyopenparkparkparkinglotserveslikelong-termparkingandairportinthelistisendlessyetsoagaintheproblemistheusagepatternrightonthephoneyoutobecompletelyindependentgetawayfromthegridtomaximisemyindependenceandmycostsavingsineedtoreallyreducemailelectricitycostsoreliminatethemificansothemostcost-effectivemethodofdoingthatifyourhomeisstillsolarandagaintalkedaboutthisbeforebuttheproblemwassolarisonlyavailableduringthedayevenifitwaswinterthoughwindisn'treliableevenifitisavailableatnighttimeanditusuallyisitsvariableandnoteveryoneisanareagetsreliablewindbutmostpeopleliveinareaswheretheygetsunlightduringthedayevenifitisnotalottogetsomemoneycancompensateforthelackofsunlightbyaddingmoresolarpanelsyesitcostsmoreareandyesyouhaveovercastdaysbutyourmomisolarpanelsonamoderatelyovercastdaywillstillgeneratebetween50to1/4evenonarelativelyheavilyovercastdatestillgeneratedkilowattor1/2kwimminentthereisnodirectsunlightonsoinnookayarmsoitisatleavisovernightyou'restuckbecauseovernightyouhavetodrawenergyoffthegridbecauseyoucan'trelyonthewindtotiptopoweryoutotochargeyourvehicleandyoucan'tareyoucan'tgetsolarenergyduringthedaytimeduringthenighti'msorrysowhatyouendupdoingisokaywelli'vegotabatterypacksoicannowsayi'mgoingoffthegridtogetthegridlocktodropoutofthegreathonourican'tgetacheapertariffbecausealotofcompanieswillnotdoacheapcartariffthechargingofvehiclesomedorightbutalotofthemdon'tsoyourfinaldoesashleysupportthattariffandyoungandthatthat'sthat'sgonnahappenmoreandmorebuthasn'thappenedyetnotenoughsoihaven'tfoundoneinaustraliathatwilldothatforexamplesomeonewillcorrectmeifi'mwrongi'msuretheyalwaysdoisdoandthat'scoolsayingrightbottomlineisyouwanttogooffthegridthenwhatyou'restuckwithhisabatterypackthat'sfineokayexceptwethinkitthroughtothinkitthroughi'mchargingabunchofbatteriesathomethatchargingofthoseparishmysolarpowerduringthedaythatisinefficientalreadyit'sgoingthroughseveralstagesofconversionthechargingthroughbatterytoheatdissipationyoui'malreadylosingenergythat'sfineiacceptthatidrawenergyoutthroughtheinverterpowerhouseatnightthat'sfinethathasalossassociatedwithnowweflippedoutoverandsayokayiamnolongerpowermyhousewiththatthatchartichargemycarhowwhatwasmycardoingallmycarsusingbatteries,chargingthebatteriesandchargingthroughtheacagainsthiminthatargumentthatwehadthewaybackwhenaboutacnbcwhilehisthingi'mlosingpoweri'miintransferringthechargefrommyhousebatteriestomycarbatteriesi'mi'mlosingenergythroughthatconversioninimeanit'slikethatit'swastefuli'malmostbetteroffstayingonthegridandthenlettingthegridbemybatteryafterhourslikebystorehydropowerfromamassivefarmhydroplantsomewhereyouknowbutthatandbemoreexpensiverightsoteslaknewthisrightteslafiguredthisouthaslycetthasopheliaandhelenmuskthoughtaboutitandthat'swake-upwassolarcityasawayofprovidingthatoptionwherehedidn'tseeittherewereenoughoptionsoutthereinthemarketsoyousignupthatsolaceanythinganditgivesyouyoursolarpanelsyouallowyoutogowithamoreequitablearrangementasanincentiveforyoutopluginovernightwithacleanconscienceknowingthatyou'vegeneratedmuchpowerelectricityfromthepvsystemandthatpowerisbeingstoredelsewhereinthisprovidetoyouafterhoursbeenit'sallfunnymoneygodisthatitisallfunnyelectronsaregodanywaysoyouknoweyesightisnotthebeintheveryelectronthatyougeneratedoesnotgetstoredsafefortheselectionwasgenerated12:17pmfromthesunlightnowstoresomeoneinthatoneelectronwasreturnedbackagainokaywillhopefullybehonestandisnotwhathappensrightisageneralpoolgetsexactlysuchit'sachargepoolandyousoundsostrangeanywayokaysoitbecomesabitofaridiculousourpropositionareifyoudoifyouwanttohaveitwherei'mcompletelyindependentfromthegridichargemyboutmybatteriesinmyhouseinthedaytimeanditransferthatchargefrommyhousebatteriestomycarbatteriesduringthenightit'sveryglossyprocesssoonepossiblesolutiontothatonepossiblesolutionisareyouawareoftesla'sintentiontoovercomethechargingrateproblemwhichwehavegottoyetbutthechargingrateproblembyhavingataswappablebatterypackinthatthemodelalashaveyouheardaboutthatihavenotheistheconceptandi'msurprisedhim/herthathaveheardaboutbutit'stherewasapseudo-moderateleveloffanfareievenknowhowiquantifypseudo-moderatelevelsoffanfarebutnevermindsotheideaisyoudriveavehicleupontoaspecialpadinmyspecialheartimeanjustyouitwillbeupadesignatedareainourinnerearchargingstationorabatteryswapoutstationlittleproperty,locatedwiththeirsuperchargedstationsdrivingtesmerontoititpreciselyalignstheteslaonthatspotasetofarmi'vementionedhydraulicallyoperatedourarmscomeoutfromunderneaththevehicleandreleasedsomequickreleasequickissuereleaselatchesthebottomofthecardropsawayaseczemadropsawayandtheyextractthebatterypackit'sintheirandreplaceitandthenreplacethetheprotectivepanellingtheyardtheshieldbearmarmourfromunderneaththevehiclethearmourprotectsthebatteryfromourbeingpuncturedbydebrisontheroadandthentheyreattachtheotherquickbuttheyreallyarethereeklockupagainwiththetheirquicklockandquickreleasemechanismandyoudriveoffinroughlythesameamountoftimeitwouldtakeyoutofillatankofgasthatsoundsliketheforkliftbatterychangeswehaveworkedfortimsamuelaboutthoseyetit'sit'salmostanidenticalprocesstoyourdescribingaccepteditcomesinfromthesideversusthebottomarmbasicallyyoujustpulloftheforkliftinyourpocketthereandthereislittlesafetysideplatekickplatethatyoutakeoutandthenthereisaitissolvedittoalonglineoperationandinthoselikealittleelectrictrolleycarthingthat'sthatyouusetochangethebatteriesandit'sgotanelectronicmagnetonitanditsgateinsertinthespaceinfrontofwhereyoustandtooperatethismachinethereisthereisastoragespacefortwobatteriesandyouextractthedeerdischargedbatteryfromthebeforeitleftandthenyoudrivethetrolleydownthelineandthenthereisalonglineofgeorgiaoniteithersideofyouandfreshbatterystageandseeyoutakeitandthenyoudisconnectthemagnetfromthedischargebatteryandyouflipitaroundandyougrabarechargeablebatteryandthenyouputthedischargebatterybackinthatslightandyouplugitandsocanchargeanynewdrivebackuptotheforkliftearsandthenyouusethemagmathinganditshowsthenewbatteryintothesaytheforkliftveryverycoolciihaven'tactuallyseenoneofthosebutthatsoundslikeareallycoolideasoandthewholeprocessisdistinctlyfarwrittenminutesandifyougetsomebodyintherethatdoesallthetimetheycandoprettyquickcoolsoithinkthat'sagreatideabecausewhatthatallowsthemtodoistheycanchargeitusingsolarpowerdirectlysavingontheonesetoflossesratherthanchargingonesetofbatteriesandthensuckinguppoweroutandthentrytransferringtoanothernoweverythingwasdonethroughachargeelectrolytesystemthenyoucouldchargeanelectrolyteandthenyoucouldpumpthatphysicallyintoanotherbatteryandawayyougowiththatstoredenergybutthatisnotsomethingthatispossiblewithlithiumionatthisstageofdoubtaboutbatterytechnologymaybesomedaybutisnotnowispicturingafuturisticglowingliquiddifferenttypesinterestingandi'mconsideringallwhathappensifitspillsunderhighpressureandthenit'sturnedoutthatishighlyacidicinanytollonthefloorinatollonyourfootincyclingasprobonocouldwatchmesci-fimoviesthethickeningoftheproblembutanyhowthatisaproblemokayrightsohowinmypersonalhangarforgetthatithinkthatthatisonepossiblesolutionbuttheinterchangeablebatterypackideainimplementingyourhomerightnowtesladon'tevenhavethatyetasapubliclyreleasedthingthey'reoperatingalimitedtrialandonlystarteddoingithinkthey'reabouttostartdoingthatuntiltheydemoedonstageayearand1/2agoanditwasmystepnowit'sonlyjustnowcomingtothepointwherethey'rereadytostartstartofferinglightasitisatrialbasisonlytoaselectgroupofcustomersonlyatlikeoneplaceincaliforniaithinkmaybelaterstephaniegottohavesomeincreasedcosttoouryearsodon'tgonotonebuttwobatteriesandthenyou'llneedthatthethechangingapparatushardwareyetexactlybutseeicanseethatinthefuturebecomingthewayit'sdoneyesifyoueasilythinkifyouthinkitthroughitsit'stheperfectsolutionbecauseyouchangeitsothatyouonlychargeitwillit'sthemostefficientpejorativeexactlyandandthat'sthepointbuthe'sanotherthingtotakeawayfromwhatifallthebatterystorageinyourhouseconformedtoastandardthatwaspluggableandthinkaboutthisfromthepointofviewofyellowsbattery-powereddatapowertoolsokaywheniwasakideverythingokayhadabloodiedwarrantrighteverythingwaspluggedintothemainsbutthentheideaofbatterystuccobattery-powereddrillsstartwithbattery-poweredrolesandnowit'severyyearbattery-poweredcircularsofficethomasorbarrypowderwhatcircularcircularsawiwasdroolinglikei'vegottogetmeoneofthoseihavenoideaicutwithitbutineedonewegotsomeanalystsifigotitifigotsomethingiwouldfindsomethingtocutifihadoneofthemiwalkaroundtheyardyouliketherewasgonnagetitanywaythepointisthat'shasacommonboundarysistermikeis24vundergroundhydrideitwastheinitialonesithinkalotofthemswitchliftingmineaswellthathomeowneryetandijustsawrecentlythatnowgotabunchofgardentoolsthathavea40vlithiumionsystemsoyouchargethebatteryupandyougotfrivolityminesgotamassiveamountofenergyintakebecausethehigh-voltageit'sgotmoretalkyoucandriveourmowerslikepushmollyatthatandi'mreallyinterestedinelectricmoreyetthatstuffisiscominginnocellmuchquietergapinitslikethatiscooljustthinknomoremainsontheinternetormixingtwo-strokefuelnomorenoneofthatbsinacessplugitinandawayyougoyouknowquieteryouofcoursemyquestionicanmakeittomorrowrightthatthelastyearthat'sthat'smythingtogreatnowmostoftheonescommerciallyavailableinmyareaarmdatetheycostmequiteapremiumoveratraditionalgasmowerwhichbewillingtoacceptthati'mnotsureigetthewholeyardmeldoutofasinglechargeyetexactlywhichmanymultiplebatterypacksbutsothat'sthat'saprettysignificanttrade-offtherethatarenotdoingatthispointbutireallylookforwardtowhenicanabsolutelybutthat'sexactlythesameargumentasthevehicleisrightbecausethesizethebatterypackthelongevitytobacktracktheconsumptionofthemofthevehicleisisisaconsumingfactorastowhetherornotitbecomesausefulpropositionit'seasywhenyou'vegotamodemmowerinthehouseandyou'vegotachargingpointrightthereandyougotfourbatterieschargelinedupyourspawnoutpluggingawaygogoesflatgoesaboutanotheroneyouyetyoucan'tyouknowthatwithavehiclesoherenowpicturethispicturethatyouhaveacommondesignastandardiseddesignforbatteriesthatarepluggableandyouhavemultipleslotsinyourvehicleandthenyourhomeyouhaveyoursolarpowerandwindgeneratoroutsideandthenyouhavemultiplebatterypacksallinstalledthatcandidatethenbeinstalledinoneormoreoftheslotsinyourelectricvehiclesolet'sjustsayyouwanttotakethecaroutwellyoucanputoneinifyouwantyoutoputtwoandifyouwantortheycouldbeusedtopoweryourhouseovernightyoucouldchoosetheirnowthatisseparateinafailurethatiswhereithinkthefutureisgoingtoendupit'sgonnabeawayoffbutthat'swhereithinkit'sgonnagoandtheonlyreasonisaythatisbecauselookatwhathappenedwithpowertoolsokaysointerestinginterestingideasbutnoihavenoideahowfaroffthatisbutitwouldbecoolsoalanmustgetonthatokayarmtobeawesomeifhewasontheshowbutithinkhisabilitiestodookaysotodowellyoutowritesofrommypersonalpointofviewareistrugglewiththewholeelectricthingbecausei'mnotkindstillreconnectsomeikeptmycurrentmycurrentratesare$0.28australianperkilowatthouristerriblerightsoiftheyarmourfeedintariffwhichisthecell5545kwsystem,consuming2kwanda3kwsurplusgoesbackintothegridfolliclefeedingthatfeedintariffisdifferenttohowmuchiconsumeandit'sterribleitwasmuchhigheritgotslashedfrom$0.12akilowatthourfeedintofourcentssowechangeprovidersisnowbackatabouteightcentsakilowatthourthat'sfeedingevenateightcentsthat'sitthat'sitthat's1/4orthereaboutsarmworsethanourofhowmuchitcostmetodrawpowerofthedamgridtheresoinorderformetocoverthatshortfallineedtoproducefourtimeswhatitwouldtakeselfihadmycardeadflatinthegaragepluggedinduringtheoptimaltimeofthedaytochargeitduringthedaytheniwouldhavetocanproducefourtimesthatamountoutofenergyinordertodothesamethesamechargingsequenceatnighttimeinnobyusingthatthegridconnectsystemandthefeedintariffsanddrawingpowerbackoffthegridandit'sthefactthatit'sit'stheuploaddownmyproblemrightsoformeitdoesn'tmakesenseandyoucouldsaywellyouthat'saproductofthelocalmarketandyesitisandweneedmoresolarfriendlyandmorepumpedstoragehydroandmoreofthissortofnotethat'swhatweneedandintherearemoreoptionsinnorthamericaandineuropeabsolutelybutit'sanimportantpartoftheequationbecausetheusagepatternofthesevehiclesisn'tthatyou'repluggingintobechargedduringthedaylighthourswhenyouthenthat'swhenyou'renothomegenerallygetokaytesla'sotheranswerthatthisisofcoursethesuperchargerstationsandtheirfreeuseifyouhaveateslathey'renotfreeifyoudon'tyougottapayforitgetsoifyou'reteslathelifetimeofthatvehiclesorryisstillnotgonnasavemorethanabout1020gworthofovergasolinebyhavingfreeelectricityandthatofcourseassumingthatyourusagepatternwouldallowyoutodoallofyourchargingsuperchargerstationslikethatchargesgetlowtimewithourlawyersarelocatedrightnextdoortoeuropearealasnounlessofcoursethatsuddenlyraisesthepriceofthearraysthevalueofyourhousehappenstobeconvenientlylocatednexttoasuperchargerstationthatbecomesasellingpointofyourhousebutididn'theareichmanncouncilhappeningbutmypointisthatwhohastimeforthatifyou'reretiredsuremaybeifyouareinapositionwhereyoucanjustjumpinthetesmerandgountilwaywhereyou'llwearyououtuntilanwechallengechinasuperchargermickareyoureallyi'msurewishihadtimetodothatyouknowsoidon'tthinkthat'saviableoptionforalotofpeoplethesuperchargersithinkaremoreintendedforourasabonusyouknowasigetyoubyteslajeffriesthesuperchargernetworkit'saperkit'saperfectyetifi'mtravellinglongdistancesthansureit'samustbecauseidon'thaveahomebasetoreturntothechargesoanywayallrightisalsoworthyofnotethatthetotalmelissaisnotgoinginsouthaustraliaanywayuntil2000andmayuntilmarchandaremarshallingitsfirstdeliveriesunlesstherestillaren'tanyaustraliawhiletherearebutyouknowmelikethenotthegeneralpublicaresolidlyrepublicanyetbutfinallymarchingaanywayallrightonemorelittlelonger.talkaboutfastchargingleveltopluginhybridsandaredonehereismyhimalaughoutloudmomentsthemostadvancedithinkyoucancallithasamodelisthemostadvancedelectriccurrentworldbutifyouarguethattheprobativearethemostcutting-edgeandadvancedelectriccarintheworldnowwillhaveaninterchangeablebatterybutapplelaptopsdon'tsuckonitanyhowmovingonokayrightadrydisplayyourmindanywayfastchargingnowonethingisthatfastchargingiwanttocoverthisbecauseithinkthatpeopledon'treallyunderstandthattheinsandoutsofnotmuchtosaybutlet'sjustbeclearnotallbatteriesaredesignedtohandlefastchargingandit'sallgottodowithwhilecurrentsotheamountofcurrentthataycancarryvehiclesirisisbasedonthetheactualcross-sectionalareaandacross-sectionalareathenalsorelatestotheresistanceandisalsothiseffectorskineffectwherebyarmyouknowtherepulsiveforcesoftheelectronspinforcethemtotheoutsideskinoftheerconductorsuchtogetanuninanevendistributionofcurrentwithinanyconductorblahblahblahpartsthetruthisthatifyou'redesigningabatterytohandleacertaindischargeratebecausethefastestyou'regonnadrawanelectricvehicleishowmanyampslet'ssaysideknow30a40aatanothernumberisdependsonthevehicleandthefasterdrivingatwildlifebutthepointisthatyouwilldesigntheamountofcancoppercross-sectionalareaoraluminiumwhateverwhateverlimitwhateveroncourtaretheactualconductorswithintheboundaryandthecross-sectionalareathebatteryinthesizeandallthatsizingwillbebasedonthedischargerateaswellasthechargingratesoifyouwantyourfastchargingthatyouhavetomaketheconductorsbiggerbecauseyou'rechargingatafasterrateyourpassingmorecurrentinthenwhenyou'rechargingthenyou'redrawingoutwhenyou'reoperatingsoyouhavedesignedbarryfromthebeginningtohandlethatandtherearesomebatteriesandsomevehiclesthatwillnotacceptfastchargingwithoutdamagingthebatterysosomebatteriesexceptthatsomebatteriesdon'tmostthevehiclesi'vebeentalkingaboutsofarthetesladefinitelydoesthenissensorterdoesokaysothehigherthefastchargingratetheshorterthelifespanofthebatterylet'sbeclearaboutthatokayifyoufastchargeyourbatteryeverytimeitwillhavealowerlifespannowthere'sagreatwebsitethatigotlinkedintheshownotesorbatteryuniversityexcellentarticleitslinkageanditscheckitoutifyou'reinterestedinthisageshowsyouyetisgreatsiteofwhichwerepreviouslyarmitshowsthedeteriorationofalithiumironbatteryoverchargingcyclesbasedontherechargingratesareinanywaycoolratesofcoursebutthatdoesn'tmatterthatthattheratesit'sallabouttheproportionalratesiteillustratestheproblemveryverywelltocheckoutifyou'reinterestednowfastchargingofnickelmetalhydridelithiumbatteriesisonlypossiblethefirst70to80%ofchargeifthechargingratecontinuesbeyondthosepercentagechargesthenyouwillcausepermanentdamagethebatteryokayyouhavethephysicsaresuchthatitjustdoesn'tworknowthat'swhyifihaveabatteryandichargeitatarateactsittakesthatsayeighthourslikethenissenleafdidandifidoublethesizeofmychargeritdoesn'ttakefourhoursittakesfivehoursthat'sbecausethatlast20%orsoofchargehastobetrickledisaytrickledbutatalowerrateoftricklechargingmakesmethinkoftheirsastreamofwaterandacoupleofdropsagoandparsonstrickleyouobviouslyknownotnotinthatsenselikeatrickletrickleit'sjustnotfastcharginglikeatafarslowerratelikeyourchargingrateissimilartotheconsumptionratetheactualusagerateokayocr'schargingfarexceedsthatokaynowtheotherproblemisn'trealintherealworldbroaduseisaidthatthaninthenissanleafasihundred92,000indianmathematicianslostsomeoneelsecandothatbutthepointisthatas192individualcellsdoyouthinktheorganagethesamerateprobablynotnostatisticallyyouandhaveadistributionanatomybasedonmanufacturingprocessandmanufacturingvariabilityascanbebasedonareyoubeyonddefectscanbebasedonthelocationofthebatterycellarerelativetowhereitisinthechainsoforexampleyouhavefourbatteriesinseriestoarmtoincreasetheirvoltagelet'ssaygoliketheydoarethenobviouslyyoucangetadifferentcurrentdistributionfromoneandyouarefromtheotherstobeingaweb-basedinstackyouormaureenareinparallelfactisperhapsmoreofanissueaswellbecausethenyou'vegotareadifferenceareyouhaveadifferentinternalresistanceisallsubtlydifferentevenifit'sonly9millionhomeissubtlydifferentinternalresistancemeansyougetpredominantcurrentfromdifferentcellswhichmeansthattherepredominantlygetmoreofthechargingcurrentandwilldischargecurrentsoyou'regoingtohavedifferentialareageingratesofindividualcellsinabatterypackitisunavoidablesowhatisthatmeanoveralongperiodoftimethedeteriorationofanindividualcellatacertainpointwillstarttoaffecttheoverallmaximumchargingratebecauseitisachargingimbalancewhichmeansthatallthebatteriesthatwereoncesuitablefastchargingwillreachapointwheretheycan'tbefastchargedproperlyanymoreokayaboutsothat'siguesswhatiwanttomentionokayandaskedwhathasestate80%charging30minutesrightisnot80%chargebecauseit'slikewhilelearningandtogiveyou80%becausewherejustlikeyouknowthatsaidtheother20%that'sonyourtimeknowthedoingthatbecausethat'sthelimitationoftheactualtechnologyokaysittinginthebiggerslamithardforthatthefirst80%pumpingasmuchcurrantastheycanandonceihitthat80%thenihadtoslowdownacharterisaright-sideddisconnectingonownextCarpleasesoplug-inhybridsyounotyoucomeacrosshybridsandpluginhybridsiassumearethebiggestexampleyouareawarethepreviousiswhatwiththemostofyetnowiaccededriverpresideoverpreviousvisnotaplug-inelectricvehicleisastandalonehybridyousoyouoftenseetheexpressionevwhichiselectricvehicleorphevwhichisplug-inhybridelectricvehicleonifanyonecallsitaphavemyeyei'veneverheardhimsaythatthatmaybewecanstartthatisthethingsolookingatitwouldbehaveanicegracilisterribleokayfarasthesuccessyouknowdoesnotthatisnotwhaticalculatethesaythatyouaremadeuncommonanagramforitatherandherokaysogenerallyiliketheideaofaplug-inhybridaxialbeforeidothatireallyneedtodiscreetlydescribehowhybridworkssohybridvehicleforthosethatdon'tknowisacompromisebetweenapetrolengineandelectricourvehicletotheideaisthatarmpetrolengineshaveanidealefficiencypointwheretheywillrevelacertainbetweensevenrevrangethegearboxwillaregenerallyorfindthatarehybridswillhaveacontinuouslyvariabletransmissionoutofmindtheoptimalreferencepointfortheenginetomaximiseefficiencyareandinadditionourpetrolengineswhenmyidolarewastingenergysothatweandi'llcutoutsotheideaisthatthebatterykeepsthecargoingduringinitialandaccelerationanditalsokeepsthatthebasicsrunningwhentheengineisturnedoffwhenyou'rewaitingontrack.thetrafficlightastopsignorwhateverthelandsarewhenyou'rebreakingratherthantheenergybeingcompletelydissipatedtoresettlebrakepadsandheatareitcanbereadthroughreverseregenerationcanthengoandchargeasmallbatterypackonboardsuchthatthenexttimeyouhittheacceleratorit'lldrawthatenergyyoujuststorethroughregenerativebrakingandit'llputputthatoutthroughthethreeelectricmotorsratherthanthroughtheenginesothehybridbatterypacksystemisabrillianceideaanditwasreallypioneeredbytoyotaanditisessentiallyagreatcompromisesolutionisabridgingsolutionbetweenthetwotechnologiesandit'sgreatbecauseyoucantakeyourefficiencyandprettymuchdoublewefficiencybydoingitreallyisgoodhowevertheplug-inidthereareverysmallbatterypacksinapressbuttheplug-inideatakesittothenextlevelsayswelllet'slookatsomethinglikethesortofrangeofanissanleafnotquiteaslowasfarandiswhatwecandoiswhenyouhavealargerbatterypackthanhybridwouldnormallygetwhichisonlyverysmallprlikemaybe5kwheight10kwhnotaheckofalotandwecanmakethatweadducedthatupbymaybe2550%thatbiggerandthatwillgiveyouaanelectricvehicleelectricrangeandthenonceyouexceedthatrangewillhaveapetrolenginethatkicksinthatthenallowsyoutogoalotfurtherandthereasonthatmakessenseisbecauseitovercomestherangeanxietyissuesoi'manxiousthatican'tfindchargingpointrungoingthat'sokayinowhaveapetrolenginethatcanchargethevehiclethematterwhereimaychoosetobefantasticrightwaswellthedownsideiswellyouliveinaroundapetrolengineinyourpseudo-electricvehiclesotheargumentagainstallelectriccarslikeafastchargingstationsnotallmodelsofcarsandsupportfastchargesforexampleweknowhaveasanextraadd-onthatwasthepriceupfurtherfastchargingeventhattakes2to5timeslongerfillingupwithgasolineandlikelytheteslabatteryswapandthatyouwhenyou'reoutchargeyoucan'tjustgrabagangcanofgasolinefromthenearestgasstationtofillupandgetgoingagainonlyportalfastchargesforelectricvehiclesillustratedaren'tthethingyetthatcouldbeabusinessopportunityactually,theyreallygoodbutnevermindthatokaysoyouavoidallofthoseproblemsbysimplykickingthemotorinoncethebatteryisdepletedandthat'sbigthat'shugesoifyouhaveshortcommutestodoyoucouldrunthewholethingtheoreticallyelectricwhicharenothemmedinthatrangeyoucouldgoanddrivetothenextstatewereofyouwantedsometherewasaropesotheotherthingthatisinterestingthatifoundoutonlylastweekiwasreadinganewspaperarticleaboutthisinjapantheyhaveasystemoffonireallyshouldwitnessdownbutididn'tunfortunatelythatallowsyoutouseyourplug-inelectrichybridvehicleasanelectricalgeneratorthatyoucanplugintothatcriticalthatisinsanelycoolbecausewhatitmeansisthatyoucandrivethecarhomeandifyouloseyourmainspoweryouplugyourcar'svehicleintotheintotheintothelocalyourhouseholdgridanditcanpoweryourhouseobviouslywiththecaveatsdependinguponhowmuchloadyou'vegotten&soforthandsubjecttoyourunningoutofpetrolbutheyyouknowtheygoverycoolhaoutlayalsoworkswhenyoucampingtosyriaavenueyouwantanoutletsoyoucanrunyourelectedtoothbrushorwhateverunderwaytakenelectrictoothbrushcampingisneitherrelativelylittlelaptopandahandfulofdatabasesandyesthat's8yardandonethinkingoneinweisselectrictoothbrushbutaokaygoodallrightgonnawrapupveryshortlysolet'stalkaboutacouplepluginhybridsthatsotheshabbyvaultschevroletinaustraliaasitsoldundertheholdenbrandsoholdinvolvingaustraliaandspeakingofaustraliait'saninsanerip-offhere$64,000australianforaforashabbyforaholdenvaultabsolutelyridiculousarminamericais35,000hourandthatincludesthe7/2thousandtaxcreditandacauseoftheothersalestaxesontopofthatsizeisnotexactlyexactpricethethatnamechangesthatitisstillthesamecompanyasitwereafranchisedealandthentheyhavetobealotoflicensingratestoshabbyourwholeandownedbygeneralmotorsbuyerwhoownsourhighlosetrackofwhoownswhoiseveryone'schangeshandlethenametimeandfranklyidon'treallycareiwillgeneralmotorsandit'sreallystillthesamecompanyforyessomehowiwasthinkingmaybetheyaretobealotoffranchisinglaceandthreethroughsomethingtobeabletogetmarriedaswellsomeattirebutnowthatthatdoesthathelpyouiiwishiunderstoodthereasonwhytheywouldbecausewecanstillbuychevroletvehicleshereinaustraliait'sdonotverycommonbutthere'safewdealersthatwilljustgiveyourdirectimportchevroletarmlikeasintheusspecessentiallysoyouknowitbutwhythenaskedmetheyjustdiditbecausetheytheycouldverywellalsothegrowthfiguresletthatslidesixhoursfullrechargethatofthe10ampsocketareto30vaccasethattakes14kwhsothreedollarsandeightustofullyrechargecameandthatrangeis50mileswhichislessthanthe66ofcourseoutside80kmforthosespeakingin,ridgeartwhichislessthannissanleafbutreallynotthatmuchlessthat16milesinnomaybeasusualmaybeit'snotbuteitherwayyouknowsothattheycouldstillhelpthatgetsyoucouldstillrelisheveryvoltareinthatrangeifyouareonlydoingrelativelyshortcommutesaroundtownbutforsomeonelikemei'vegotlikea54kmcommuteeverybodydayeachwaywelldoneadichotomybethepetrolbetakenintheirwordfrommetoyoualivethinkthat'sthatthatisaproblemsoareourfeedbacktothemodelarethathaslessreallybeingtheonlysuperseriousexamsarrangementrightnextwhileiquicklytalkaboutisthemitsubishioutlanderwhichithinkiscurrentlytheonlysuvplug-inelectrichybridthatiswidelyavailableisavailablehereinaustraliathatisavailableinjapanbutit'sonlyavailableintheuslaterthisyearsoourestimatepricebecausethefisher-pricehasreleasedinamericais40,000usareinaustraliasalesof50,000farmorereasonableconversionthereihavenoideawhythehellthechevyvoltissoexpensivemaybebecauseihadchangedaboutthebadgefromsavvytoholdensoyou'repayinganextra10$20,000forthebadgeidon'tknowanywaymitsubishioutlander15ampoutletforchargingthethingwhichisapainintheneckbecausealotofarmchargesherethatsaidattendingachargeonthechevyvoltisgreatbecauseitisthestandardthreeprongoutletherebutitwinampoutlethasalargerearthconnectoronafterallsortsofreallygoodreasontogetintoarmanyiis3000blahblahpointisouritgivesyou1/352:arrange32mileselectricrangeandittakesfor1/2hoursoffullchargeof15atochargeattheregistry.5kwchargergivesyouatotalof15.5kwhintotalor$3.41ustofullychargeitnowthosenumberstheysoundtherealotmorethanchevyvoltandthoseareallagainaremorethantheleafanditshouldbeobviouswhybecausethey'rebiggervehiclesyouarethesamelawsofphysicsapplybiggerelectriccarheavierelectriccarit'sgonnatakemoreenergytomoveitaroundokayitshouldbeobviousbutjustincaseit'snotobviousthegumspunoutmountainthingscangoaslongasitdidheretheyhaveitallrighttowrapupinconclusionhavinganelectriccarisonlyasaveyoumoneyifyouhaveaccesstocheapelectricityandbythatimeanlessthan$0.10akilowatthourusnowyouifyourappbysayinghavingaccesstocheapelectricityyoucouldhavearmyouknowsolarpowerwindpowerareoryoucouldsimplybeinaluckystateyouknowwhoknowsmaybeyou'vegotahydroplaneinyourbackyardmaybeextraluckyidon'tknowbutinaustralianodidstatethatisjustnothereisnowaythatiknowofthathaselectricitythatsheepnowififyoucansignuptoifsomeonestraysstartsdoingatariffwhereyoucanpluginavehicleovernightinachargesatlowertariffthatislessthan$0.10akilowatthourthanfantasticuntilthathappensnonotanoptionnotreallyrangeanxietyisabigproblemareit'salwaysbeenaproblembuttheubiquitousnatureofgasatgasstationspetrolstationsarecalledservicestationsissuchnowthatafterhundredyearsplusit'snotaproblemanymorethesamewillbetrueofelectricandsuperchargerfastsubstationseventuallybutwearen'tfarfromthatpointsorangeanxietyonsmallelectricalpluginelectricvehiclesaresuchthatalotofpeopleinlargercitiesacommuteijustourlucksitethanksareplayingcan'thelpyouneedatasmanmolassesexaminersgotdecentrangebythewayyougetyourcheque-bookinfeelsomepainheresopeoplearewiththelongercommutesbeingstuckwithamodelsandthatdefeatsthewholepurposeofthisdiscussionwhichisiwanttosavemoneyoveranequivalentpetrolvehicletogetmearoundisitviablesowastheconclusionforthevastmajorityofpeopleintheusandaustraliaandisuspectalsoineuropebutinididn'tcrunchthenumberssoinareasonableproportionoftheworldtheanswerisnonowifeelsaddoyoufeeldepletedpleaseyesihavebeendepletedsoarmthatisofcourseyouknowifyouarecouplingwiththeenvironmentalbenefitswheretheirnegligibleweathersignificantwhetheryoubelievethattheyareornotthat'sanothervariableintheequationsureindependencefromoilindependencefromtheieeegridgoingfullystandalonegoingdownthatroadthoseareothervariablesifthosethingsmattertoyouthanisworththeextraexpensebuticouldnotingoodconsciencerecommendanybodythatacross-the-boardit'stherightadvicetogetelectriccartosavemoneynodon'twhichissadanddepressingasistillwantamodelsiwantmeteslaiwantthekeycoolfobthingthatlookslikealittleteslaiwillhavetokeepmytoyotacorollaandi'llbekeepingmyhondaarehondajazzandmywifewillbekeepingtheyearthepre-svisdarylcheapertorunanddon'thaverangeanxietyissuesifyouwanttalkmoreaboutthisyoucanreachmeontwitteratjohnggandhecanknowthatmywritinginthispodcastandothersi'vemadeahostofmysitetakedistortion.comifyouliketogetintouchwithourvicwasthebestwaydoingthatvictheycoulddothatatthatcutsomeoneontwitterdeannapodcastiheardyoumighttheydoitdoesn'treleasequiteasregularlysatellitebutyoucanfinditatappstorypodcastarchiveisagreatpodcastarmiwasthereiwasneverepisodeitsoit'sabitwherevicinterviewsareappdevelopersandgetsthestorybe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People

Vic Hudson

Vic Hudson

Vic is the host of the App Story Podcast and is the developer behind Money Pilot for iOS.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, programmer, podcaster and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John has produced and appeared on many podcasts as well as Pragmatic.

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