Pragmatic 44: Order a Steak and Get a Piece of Rat

8 November, 2014


Working in retail and in customer facing roles comes with its own set of challenges. We dive into coping mechanisms, closing a sale and identifying when you’re being worked over, Apple’s Genius Training manual and the effectiveness of tipping.

Transcript available
Welcome to pragmatic pragmatic as a weekly discussion show contain the practical application of technology exploring real-world trade-offs with great ideas and transform products and services that can change our lives nothing is as simple as it seems this episode is sponsored by is the easy and affordable way to learn we can instantly stream thousands of courses created by experts in the fields of business software web development graphic design and lots more visit LY to get a free seven-day trial if you ever want to learn something new what are you waiting for this episode is also sponsored by harvest new sponsor harvest lets you time your tasks where ever you might be doing them and then easily analyse your timesheet to track nonbillable or hopefully billable hours in terms of invoices for your clients of both PayPal and strife integration checker and sign up for a free 30 day trial and start tracking your time and invoicing others simply and painlessly once Athena trial is up is the coupon code pragmatic at checkout and you'll save you percent off your first month but hurry because this offer expires on January to 15th 2015 so be quick was a more during a show on your host John GG and I joined once again by my co-host Vic Hudson has gone Vic Gojo married and that I am fantastic which I also have recently someone, and it is now becoming one of my catchphrases fantastic and gallantly will point out you say things a lot in the new like now paramedic are really conscious about said dying was said to meet your own that's it and go on ongoing full guy and I'm owning fantastic all right once again well I threw Michelle's you can join in the chattering there were as well we got some heated discussion going on right now so they outsource our is now possible to see the list of topics of recovery show in coming weeks and if you're not a member you will be able to see the list but if you sign up you'll be out of vote on the existing list and suggest whatever topic you'd like to cover on the show be looking in episodes we are to have time to consider topic and co-host or guest host ahead of times they can tune in and know what to expect go check amounts I also started to release an equivalent to the after dark/after show/B-side thing we did digs when you call them are and I'm calling it addenda and all that is at snippets from the before and after the show interactions of the chat room than I normally would remove from the episode but several people have requested that I post so I have started do so go check it out if you're interested in stuff that is off topic however if you're some stuff that is on topic then stick around because we can stay on topic and the topic today is retail now this topic came up kinda randomly and frankly was inspired by our Marco and Marco had our before we went live a few weeks ago we started just shooting the breeze of our staff and the topic came about both his and my time in retail now I will play this our life so that the chat room can hear our what's going on what's going on a storytelling to rigourous people and the four. Remember everything that was off but the more I learn about the retail world is harassing friends with a difference all her friends were aspirants of a that are in the more I learn about the rental of the Mori I learned that Lake steeples wasn't the problem is retail is the problem of retailers that that you regularly and I have a is a chain of stores like gum radio show called our Dick Smith electronics and I worked there for the better part of a year and 1/2 was casual pretty much as a casual job so Thursday night Saturday morning you some might tend 12 hours a week not huge hours and are yes rough actually I reckon everyone should do a stint in retail amounts one account because it really does so teach a lot of patience I were I am I completely changed my view of serve of of PE of being in a store as a customer and as a result of doing that because it is get put through so much crap by customers that knowing why I swear to God and 11 below that cost me know and I think that the worst part of my retail that the only use that something sometimes original set in stickers and is as follows downs so they haven't followed down just what Marco said so that's what work that's what this is that was some followed down if there is such a thing I guess that he is now coined the phrase of the habit what am I to do as a result of that little discussion that I had done a few weeks ago and Marco is so I'd like to talk a little bit about my experiences when I was working in retail are and also want to talk about some of my pet peeves and getting your head around our little bits and pieces like our closing and is seeing sales for what it is I guess developing patience and not getting angry I think selling is interesting and worth discussing so I guess our I'll start off by asking you to question Vic have you ever worked in a customer facing role yes okay can you tell me little bit about about Dale what you did and a Mars level that will let me pick one day I think probably the worst ever awareness the drive-through window at a Burger King wow okay I can't claim of them that one so how long did you do that job for one was at arm that particular jar may be fabric six months I worked at Burger King off and on for a few years and Catherine are my first job ever was at Burger King know that the same is true of a lot of people although in Australia typically is me a McDonald's yet is a far more widespread humour the McDonald's our infections your call than a spread wide far and wide account so I guess I must start with some of my experience and I did talk about it just briefly that to expand on that I work for a company and/or Dick Smith Electronics and they been around since starting so late 70s early 80s and my dad and I worked there in the last few years of my university degree are because only the money basically and are just the last year and 1/2 and while most frustrating part of that for me was when I was at the end I finish my degree and of course there is a time lag between finishing a degree in getting a job and Iraq's work for Dick Smiths for nearly 5 months four months and anchor was technically after I finish my degree before I actually landed my first job and in engineering so a first engineering job so it was always difficult at that point in time because you're you you've got this shiny blue paper why she is not shiny come think that it's Matt and how you have this sheet of paper that says OR Jew so clever now you can go and get a really good paying job and you don't because you're still working on your still waiting for a break and honestly arm you and that that that made it difficult for me personally arm but honestly are I still enjoyed it because it taught me so much so I get first of all standing now I have not worked in too many jobs were had to stand for such a long time as I had to stand in retail now I know it'll get as brief having after the shows but your job involves a lot of standing does not yet and it is so hard on your ankles and your lower back you legs and I found that that it got so bad and there were so few seats in the shop because you don't encourages sitdown unity get up and serve customers so out the back in the office there were essentially two chairs and we would fashion up old boxes that from from stock arm as additional chairs if we need them and that was discouraged so and out the front I think we had one still and that was it that was in the entire store of maggots on the floor I guess but good luck to match along so yet that was the first one the first thing then the next thing is the always be smiling did you have to do ever told that one out SI you're dealing with customers you need to make sure that you always have a pleasant demeanour you and one lecture I got one morning is everyone has a bad day but all customers come in that I won't hear about your bad day you know your you are having a great day okay thank you how bad you day is says the guy giving Alexei the senior sales guy you been doing it for something like 15 years of something and I came in dejected one morning I forget I no idea why and got the lecture you know always be smiling and you know honestly my my memory of my will memory my wedding day are was that my mouth was sore from all smiling for the photos and that's the most my face as ever heard from smiling and I never really quite got the hang of smiling all the time to the point which my face was sore like my wedding day you are that's you know it was it was still something that the aim here so when you customer facing job always always the pleasant demeanour always be smiling being courteous note for me honestly I guy was broken in a household whether there will very strict with manners so I tend to tended that Sen come more naturally to me in that respect although people have listened to tangential will know that you say I am capable of suffering like a sailor better alas and no I I did not do that when I was what is good be courteous and that means no swearing and not because customers can suffer because of the Cayman would swear no problem no but you don't know if they can do that so you can't assume that they can do that which means you gotta have be courteous all the time and and make sure that you don't just in case they're not and if they let slip a few no curses then you may be if you want to risk it may be you could let a few slip distantly imagine here anyway so are my goodness arm dear dealing with angry customers good God dealing with angry customers to how often did you have an angry customer jetted there were thick low in the Burger King drive-through light in our village of Paul the manager card are probably not as often as I'd like to again did did you in trouble for calling it further using it too often did you or organising now worried still now i.e. you won't discouraged necessarily is just realistically speaking there is only a certain amount of time that they have to to be able to accommodate that right well i.e. only was actually that that's the way they preferred it arena if you had somebody that was given you grief they were becoming a problem than they preferred that you put them off onto the manager because they just didn't trust us to handle that appropriately a gas yet one of the problems I faced arm was the attitude of the manager was that arm it was better for you to deflect to the manager rather than you deal with it as the employee because if you do it as an employer you get this this kind of rage thing where there like you know I'm talking to you but you're not as important as the managers the customer thinking on sport as the manager is like now to imagine you are now on and to get somewhere now getting someone you know is I guess subordinate sales guy is gone guess in the corner you want the now I am to report all dilemmas record a lot yeah that's it and I had that card pulled me a few times are which point you we were told don't argue just get the manager you and that's fine so we did our you and sometimes a thing maybe twice I think I actually pulled the manager because of a bomb on I'm really sorry that you're upset about the situation are let me go and talk to the manager see if we can sort something out okay and dislikes skulk out the back and Seo aggressively alive one so anyway arm dealing with angry customers you all again referring back to always being polite and everything like that goodness me but still it was a lesson in learning patience and trying to be understanding because you you have to take the approach that nobody is stupid it is that people misunderstand and sometimes they want things that are not realistic and sometimes they want things that are beyond Europe your capacity as as a salesperson on the floor to to approve the app and I like match this price from a competitor I couldn't be price matching I wasn't authorised to do that I had to get the manager for that because I had the magic override code zone at that can trust me anyway memory is okay are McGuinness's learning selective hearing learning selective hearing this is why things that I thought I'd never have to learn but you know what she's you have to do because the low talker you know the whisperer is in and they based their people think I think it's like because I haven't done this as a customer very like very often at all that I can remember and maybe as I got a false memory made them thinking John you never do that when in fact I made you have done it and I'm just blocking it out but I like to think I'm never done it and won't want talking our rent ranting about is okay so you're in a queue there's a bunch of people in front of you and the sum of the front who's counting out 500 pennies that is because of your country still has pennies unlike Australia which doesn't five cent pieces then whatever subaccount out their kinds and you're looking at the what she watched me thinking and I really need to get out here you know I'm in a gallery and anywhere you wish you either mutter under your breath or your whisper to your neo-partner friend arm accomplice in a doppelgänger whatever you say them Jesus was to hurry up I need to go somewhere this is important and know how was it take to do insert whatever is slowing you down them down neo-insert that their site as it's intended not to be a whisper not to be like talking but to be just audible enough that someone else he is you know And what is that what is achieve know it's a bit of venting I guess maybe you think or hope that the guy behind the counter or the girl behind the counter can somehow magically speed up how long it takes to count 500 pennies in maybe I do know that when you're on the other side of the fence there is it is one of the most irritating things to deal with because your manual I mean let's say it's not counting painlessly having problems the point of sale you you try to put through a check of God jerks you try put through it shack or something like that and you gotta tick boxes and sign forms and punching numbers and and is not working for whatever reason technological reason probably not your fault you know you and you having these people are low talker is in a whisper is in the queue and you like I am trying I am really tries were you thinking I'm trying so hard to service customer on trying to get you as soon as possible you and it's even harder when you've got it all the other teller all the other tellers are awful you know so let's say there's a queue of 1450 people deep and is any one person on serving or there's two people serving in each of those lines is for five long you sometimes get extra tills we got till restricted by we only had two tills at Xmas rye work for the longest time I worked there so there was no way to ring through anything else you once I maxed out that was it so thanks to government and is nothing you can do so you gotta grow that thicker skin you got your sort of thing I like you to learn that patients and man there so I now I I like to think that I don't do that and I'm pretty sure that I haven't done that in a very long time as a direct result of it being done to me rights sales targets and quotas so you working in our in a role where you were you know we we had to wear was a competition of sorts you for sales targets and sales quotas arm it wasn't a competition but you're your reader pay was directly linked to it yeah that the poorest director you say would actually move your pay up and down and a bloodsucking commission arming your hourly rate was determined by a sales per hour that's terrible yes it was terrible yikes okay will know my was not quite like that in 19 Australia it was a major department store in America while can you say which one or not you do not yet sure it was dealers wow okay the iPhone of them actually was the dismissed and work like that it was you got a fixed rate but you got a bonus based on the yellow and every week there was a sort of a competition for bragging rights of nothing else but that our accumulative with adult towards a bigger bonus out of the bonus cut sadism as a pool of money every year and it would be divided up by those arm who had a high sales so there was an incentive not much of an incentive and it was a completely disproportionate percentage are incentive because the problem was that the sales targets and the quotas drove higher margin hot sorry high priced products not higher margin products and it also drove sightless at laissez ice our customer comes in for a computer $2000 down readable down the table if I spent an hour talking through all the benefits of this computer and close it and sale and sell it and I get $2000 towards my towards my weekly sales that's fantastic now I go and spend on an an hour serving for different customers for cordless phones each with $100 so $400 for an hours sale hours out of the selling time versus $2000 so what ends up happening is the people that end up winning are the ones that just hang around and push in a push on the higher dollar value items and the problem is that there is only so many customers are coming with $2000 in their pocket every day you know so then this sort of the rest of your tyrannical indictment yet you will need someone to serve your customers right so then you either casual staff get screwed over because what will happen is the monitor Friday staff the full timers they would come in the unlimited frightening a lot of people come in with the money for the computer would typically come were older people and I don't mean only defamatory way the reality was that if you look at are the demographic of people that were coming to buy computer the younger people would never go to Dick Smith Electronics they would go to a computer store or they would go to all a buy from Apple online or some other retail online I get Dell or HP are similar wouldn't come to buy from the survey choices you would not get as good a deal typically and are causing a counselling to customers i.e. get you down the road known enough obviously not but still are so generally older people had more time on their hands they could come in during the week as well as on weekends so I would serve some these people and do the self like 30 minutes harm 45 minutes an hour sometimes a nice-looking ago I think about come back during the week and see instantly your heart would sink as a VI great site has spent an hour of my time selling the computer and the guy comes in on getting) all somebody else's gotta get the seal that's right and it and you think that there was loyalty in that place guy can desired hours are dealing with are with John on Saturday to make sure he gets the sale yet again a problem right guess what you know they lie they ring and they ring in on themselves yet they ring in against their own you know their own ID their own name in the system so gets credit them not me and now they were there for five minutes and those so that was so wrong and Annie have dust cuddles all the time and the whole time I worked there I think one casual employee one once just once they got high sales total for a week because I managed to close a computer on the were on on the weekend and they they pull some extra hours that we can Solomon Dir product so no I found it to be so OR also unfair I mean the system was impossible to win at if you were anything other than full-time essentially the active impossible and also drove the wrong wrong kind of attitude among staff so I can imagine closing and I thought it would be interesting to talk about yellow closing intensifier as you what it is how it works how they do it and down and I guess should I say tips and tricks I know bits are maybe something like that to 1 yet to be aware that it's happening to you and me that should be manipulated so that they might be interesting interesting angle to look at avoiding get that on talk to our tour benefit sponsor for this episode and that's our is an easy and 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visit to try free for seven days that LY thank you once again to for sponsoring pragmatic once or closing and I'm enclosing a show no no no closing the store closing closing the snow close the store the deal yes closing the deal now the thing is about closing and safaris are working at Andy Smith went we didn't get a hell of a lot of sales training there is a manual it wasn't particularly impressive and later on the Charlotte or when the Apple manual that was Lee's couple years ago is really really interesting but want to talk about of actually I don't as I say offer but I don't often quote Wikipedia Word for Word and I'm not quite do that but she's a table while they had a list there that was truly impressive and some of these I've heard of some of the naming is subtly different but I'm NOT what some of these is just you bathe a mirror so many of what I've seen I was gonna read through the list that sits up on Wikipedia zoning it's actually quite an impressive list type closing techniques here we go first one the alternative choice son is called the positive choice so as a salesperson you present the prospect of two choices but both of those choices must end in a sale so you don't is no option to not sell C habits are So would you prefer that in red or blue yes I would you prefer that in red or blue or do I come back tomorrow noon and a no no no error lever with something or blue ago baby red alert assets come back known and that red or blue two choices are then there's the apology right are IUI Mike I'm really sorry ERI I have an apology somewhere along the line we sublet out some some con something important information or maybe with some members still build their doubt left in your mind you wonder we both know that this this this product like it suits what you need perfectly so clearly I just I failed to to convey to you are exactly what you needed no as I I've had that done the me and sounded so cheesy and even now repeating it still sounds cheesy but still maybe that works in some people again the assumptive sometimes referred to and the way I've heard of it referred to as the presumptive close so and that's when you jump ahead so this is a salesperson you intentionally you intentionally assume that they've already agreed to bite and start proceeding to wrap it up again this must be the grey cardinal stuck in the paperwork ready you I am presuming that I made a salad despite the fact there was no commitment made a table while I've had that done the me a few times and I have always reacted badly to that yet to really really grinds my gears you know it's very annoying it is CA I know how successful our needs are some people but frankly anyway the balance sheet are sometimes referred to as the Ben Franklin) in North American one I guess being Brent Franklin but still are in any case so as salesperson arm you build the pros and cons list for the customer on whether they should buy the product and of course you are you you wait the list in the pros as a voter poster cons gravity cons nano otherwise it looks like you're being completely transparent stack in the back so you the whole balance sheet no weighing it up for the customers if they don't have a brain for themselves I guess but it might anyhow no I do not use that one ever okay the cradle to grave close I know this one lease not referred to in a way interesting to interesting one yes a name that that the have Wikipedia for any same which salesperson undercuts arm objections so prematurely and are side by telling there's never a convenient time to make a major decision like this I guess it kinda works more the big sales I give you sound like a car or a computer were aroused by computer you like perfect microcomputer is never the right time to buy computer and ochres are always getting out of date so far so you may as well just go ahead and do it now you know and get a most powerful one which can get CRI never heard given the name and eyesight still don't quite agree with the cocreator a great thing but little of that I called on Wikipedia but I'm not sure what alternative name I would give for that but still where they go okay obviously there's there could be a complete list without the direct approach taken by just straight out you might be easier when we have a deal are the indirect one so we feel the amount he selects a Yum so one would you think when you think were out with this discussion with you when you think you are with the that the terms of the arrow of the agreement we think where what's your sense about about how about where were at you know how would you describe that to me you know where we have a feeling about this here and it's kind of our it's a softer close obviously and won't always work but still had to be mentioned AA the minor points are man I have actually done this to somebody what's and anyway the my point again so let's assume there's a dozen things on the table made of cementing members fight on the table about of of issues that that that that you're trying to get resolved in order to close the deal well let's just pick one and pick the simplest one to agree on and say right so would you rather it painted dark red night okay well will leave that the colour that is done right and we move straight to the sale and start progressing down that line so it is like you agree on a minor point and therefore everything is all good and with your sale your your closing now you others ignore the awful things that's fine and again you get back to the early ones the momentum is like saying right when done in a bid to read here loudly and again I apologise for lifting some of some of these were modern lifting Word for Word out of out of Wikipedia some of most of them I've I've come across although not always by the names and addresses a few more to go are the negative assumption so so where you ask usually R22 final questions right but you keep repeating them until you gets sort of like are you get to a conclusion there sort of like are you having more questions dizzy anymore either reasons why you wouldn't want to buy this inner Whitaker take to put you in this court today yes yes perfect yet exactly that one okay the possibility of loss for her sometimes and I've heard of this one as the pressure the pressure tactic right now as we point out if you don't know if you don't get this as this could be a missed opportunity and no I've had the three other people on the phone interested in this inverted purple widget thing that has been sitting on the lot the last six months but you do need to know that you both but this three other people man delete order message get it now we can arm agonists anyway again then there's the arm I haven't heard of this one the puppy dog I've heard is why sort of a loner kind of idea where you give either you loner product or you you give that as a monitor on a trial basis we get dentists to use it in a shop environment in a controlled environment to get them to enjoy using it more such that they then are more likely to buy it there no AAI hence hence the reason why a lot of players have demo area set up you like to have a demo Xbox with the with the other favourite one was when the connect came out you know there is a section of Dick's mess I had cordoned off with that with an Xbox and are in the sensor and all bad and you know you could wave your arms around like an idiot and is yet to organise right so where are I have not ever because it is a rule generally in sales signal and walk out the door without paying come on really so I do note that as I said Wikipedia marking yet my experience is that you get in the demo seed import out of the box get a hold that you get them to connect with that and then are far more likely to want Alicia hope they are otherwise you just pulls and the other boxes ignition anymore as okay like the said you can do wonders of sticky tape okay arm to more telling is enough the sales contest okay see offer a special incentive you know what I throw in this like it's a final strong this free case we think you know there because the margin on that case the case is worth 30 bucks the margin onto something insane like $25 marginal and so is the thing with five bucks there nurtures your purchase price and the cost price but all my God he promised extra thing for five dollars a you buy an $800 phone outright this year really make a sacrifice there is gonna really had the bell bottom line was the profit on the final of the problem UK thrown to my help anyway any other one causes the is the competition so your seat is all the time when I say come in and if you spend this man were you going off into the draw to win a free trip to Spain all Nairobi door somewhere you know wherever Upper Mongolia you never know maybe there's something I stop Mongolia owner anyhow the point is is a competition you know so all it takes is free for $5000 we know from the parent company put into a competition into a big kitty you any dried out from months and that will jack up your sales because we will be drawn in by the whole sales contest idea yet aright last one are the sharp angle and that's when you respond to a question with a request to sort of close it and you know this one as soon as I say so I can guarantee you this point we have a deal yet it's kind associated lobby with the pressure close dinner so why is all of this interesting it's interesting because it's about manipulation it's manipulating you so I the salesman manipulating you the customer interest to parting with your money so why want to talk about is because I have been sucked in by good salesman or sales bands I should say and you know honestly if you arm depending upon your arm honestly Can't because be blunt for a second nature if you're a guy and you are heterosexual and there's a pretty lady and she serving you that makes it easier for her generally to sell something to you whether or not you want to admit that you know there is a part of your mind that is lowers its guard shall we say to an ex that were wired that way yeah but you know you can mix and match your gender and your gender preference into that statement however you choose okay the point is that a quote unquote pretty face irrespective of your gender preference and your own gender doesn't matter a pretty face can make a difference beyond any of those things I just listed so what's the point of this the point is educate yourself about the techniques that they used to manipulate you to separate you from your money if you're aware of it you have a chance of intervening in a psych the whole house there is Stephen carries as Stephen Covey thing is that you got action I see you got your stimulus a choice and a response take control and choose to react differently educate yourself you know no matter how nice them and how attractive how pleasant how friendly or positive ego stroking charming lovely insert whatever dam adjective you like the salesperson is not your friend they're not because they are your friend and you knew before our salesman but statistically unlikely then a friend don't make that mistake they are being nice to you because I want your money than weaning us and you know what someone is gonna case I am waiting for some feedback right now you know what they are recommending a say in a John Eissey made a really good friend who I met a core over-the-counter with the salesperson you know they sold me this smack or something in our best friends them again there are exceptions fine that's okay please please email me it's all good really but seriously the vast majority of the time and I have no statistics to back this up and I think I'm pretty safe in saying 09 .999999% of all your sales transactions they are not your friend and never gonna be okay that was closing grinds my gears yet here I got a lot of it was gears to be honest is not on my end not special no artificial okay if you're willing to talk about stuff we could start talking about arm about Apple and then will start talking about are nice talk about some my personal experiences specific experiences thinking in sales some of them are interesting anyway so as I quickly touch on promotion so this is a problem across the board in all industries right and that isn't there is no difference in engineering so engineering just Google if you meet your good designer or a programming of the program does not mean you will be a good manager and I found it even worse in sales in a sales environment what makes a good salesperson does not make a good manager and Frank generally what I found is the better sales yard is the worst manager you are in no and you the path of promotion is questionable indeed is dubious at best so you I find that to be quite found to be quite frustrating and yet again it was it was frustrating for me because I knew a bit of the background of of of the guy that was my manager at the time and date it was very difficult for me to swallow but you know what he was my boss so you know I'd I did was told because I had to that was bus was being paid to do and that's fine but she's you know sometimes it's hard anyway so when you're doing sales there is a debt that is if there is a balance and perhaps it's a fine line between showing an interest in the customer to not just not really necessary gain their trust although you could look at that cynically that you are being friendly with a customer is is all part of the rules in and I frankly should be like that with him people generally anyway ammunition be a cranky old blogger I guess but you know assuming you will be nice then you are being interested in them and what they have to say is important but there's a fine line between that and being an end and harassing them did not happen to me that happened to 1 of our sales from salesman stores was was the ship was being interested in now one of the our customers and she did not like his interests and paid a formal complaint so all you i.e. I don't think it's safe for me to repeat the details about all keep that to myself it's a fire was a there's a fine line there people idea I guess is all about how you word what you're saying you just use positive and supportive language and don'ts don't cross the line by being too personal a high know I sound a bit weird again and that brings me to the Apple Genius training student workbook manual did you see this when it came out was in Narnia's mid-2012 and Gizmodo got their hands on it a copy of the Apple Genius training manuals oligomer show nice that you see is what happened a couple years ago idea first impressions before I get stuck in our it was interesting as it allows over a nice cut of a but I remember being very fascinated with it well it was fascinating and they didn't publish the whole thing only pump published excerpts of it screen screen dumps and sign I searched for a PDF version or any kind of version that showed the whole document I cannot blank if anyone has a copy the full thing on loveseat bites arm just going on there Gizmodo article arm and has plenty of good stuff in their plan to talk about another go through the whole lot of what they even publish the things huge so Gizmodo got their hands on this asked Genius training student workbook manual thingy from Apple few years ago and it was big news at time now nothing that they would negotiate noble really surprised me but I tell you what it is an object lesson in soft manipulation saving all those closing things were bad or rather irritating and annoying I know what you might think but still interesting nothing else are so Apple's man I just love this bit the Apple AP PLE right so that they expand and out into five guiding principles Apple a is approach customers with a personalised warm welcome P first peak probe politely to understand the customers needs ask closed and open ended questions K next P present a solution for the customer to take home today owl is listen for and resolve any issues or concerns he finally is and with a fond farewell and an invitation to return in that lovely anyway some all exits from that manual I love invitations to return to the Apple Store now yah come back year you should do that with your accent go you come back now you as much about ASE they will either believe that I never the you're the genuine article and I'm just a pale imitation comes that expression now I cannot say get a nisei today g'day yes see I got that one okay variety were of barbecue later okay so there's more from this meant this minister did your computer crash know it stops responding never say crash through yet this was the part that I felt that the most fascinating I remember now units it so the next time was what if at what if some Apple software has a bug wrong there is an issue a condition or simply our situation in our now you don't eliminate a problem you reduce it and Apple products are not hot at most of their warm note the language right now is nothing that is not in the manual that really really pesters me off and yes I am in a beat that out it really really does yet the same stuff from Phil Schiller okay and only happened the last few years and I think it may have started with when and when Steve jobs arm was on stage in Woking as I don't have the exact moment happened but I do remember it starting a few years ago so when I can talk about how thick our product is any more it's not 6.1 m thick it's 6.1 mm then there are those are soundly breathing out anger so from now on I currently weigh the arm for anyone that cares animal convenes on the pounds is 94 kg as I currently way now from now on I'm not I don't will not have 94 kg heavy 94 kg lights that's right people from because by saying the same mass and in a different like saying the heavy online that makes it sound lighter yet it's a set is it 6.1 mm is not thick if not then it's a measurements are distinct bloodied measurement that it's not it's not thick if not then it's a distinct measurement God dammit anyway really bothers you you okay with that in my system a good lovely so arm before we go on any further I would like to talk about a second sponsor new sponsor for the show and that is harvest now many people listing the show spend their time working on home projects and work projects to and you lose track of time we talked about this on the show before about being realistic about how much time you got available to you the one way you can track your time is by using harvest I have is a simple to use where Matt we can create tasks they also have mobile apps for both android and iOS and easy in any of those to select a task connectivity start. A timer from any of them on the Mac installs a neat menubar icon the detects when you been idle for a period of time and then when you come back you can choose to deduct those idle minutes or hours from the total nozzle touches like that vehicle and yet it is a great way to track where your time is going on after you've done that it's really easy to look back at your timesheet a bills timesheet for you based on all the information you can see where time is gone that's handy enough but if you working on a project with a team your co-workers can track their times and make it really easy to manage everyone's time in the project as a result so harvest also makes invoicing really easy it's quick and painless is that our clients with multiple points of contact if there are more than one at those clients and you can build invoices using all that information now better than that harvest then let you pull your hourly rates for your time and your timesheet and you can create invoices based on those hourly rates and all that integrates nicely with PayPal and stripe now I'm using harvest invoices for this podcast recently and is now taken over as my invoicing system of choice I ice I think it's really nice now you can check out and sign up for a free 30 day trial and start tracking your time and invoicing others simply and painlessly is no credit card required an obligation that is what you see how great and how handy it can be there's no excuse not to give it a try once a 30 day trial is over and you realise how great harvest is use the coupon code pragmatic at the checkout and you'll say 50% off your first month and applies to any of their plans hurry though because this offer expires in January 15, 2015 is only a few months away not that long so to get through the day trial is not long after that so be quick getaway can and I thank you to harvest the sponsoring pragmatic okay now then I realise it is actually another subtopic will talk about just at the end tipping I get that the Endo rubble rattle wrapup problem but okay so a few of my personal experiences and observations in and as a result of serving behind the counter customer service and sales when I walk into a shop now the salesperson comes over to me and I'm just browsing and I know I'm just browsing and I'm not gonna buy anything today I don't want them to waste their time waiting on me or chatting to me or doing any sales anything to me has their time is precious if they got 10 customers in the store they have to pick who is going to be the most likely to buy something and they come to me for whatever reason I know maybe a look like I'm a sucker on the got a lot of money or something owner I don't know whatever I am always up front police I am now you know you because I've been there right and I don't want this to Sammy I live I spent like 10 minutes talking to someone about staff when other customers have been our try to get my attention on the net they they stay up and they say are you gotta run anyway as does is browsing for you could do yourself a favour to because a lot of them senior left alone what if you want may be a lonely more talk to someone but I know there is that I guess you generally speaking I like to respect the time the salesperson's time I like to respect that because I've been there and they're busy on other people need their help and F and other people be far more likely to lead to a sale spend your time working on them not working on me because I can get you anywhere on the be upfront about that you know yet so and I and I and I think that that's that's important to continue keep in mind you and if they're struggling at the checkout you like that example with a £0.50 thing I still matter for you if there is if there's any reason you can Intel pretty quickly you know if they're experienced or not I give there are trainee or theremin there very long if there are training my hunters goes out to them because I know it is like the pressure you still learning was like to be in Sabina, the job it's hard it's rare you know so I have nothing that but empathy for them so I am I don't get concerned and if I actually have a time commitment and I have to go much about it as leave the queue and walk out of the store you know I would like not grumpy or anything I can know what that's fine I can come back another day that something is more important because that's the truth you easy listening really really is that much more important do you really need to buy that thing that you are there to buy right now I guess there may be times when you know the two are mutually I require the same time in then a you can't actually do that but you know make a choice don't don't get angry about someone else's if there is an issue the point of sale terminal and their carpet through whatever try put through an assault that their fault yes i.e. it is it's taught me that patience and and I understand I can empathise now and are so many people I think can't or don't which is a shame this brings me to her experience I had a few weeks ago arm I sigh was hours in line I was being served and his are in trouble with the epos in a whatever reason are epos announcements epos air I do not epos arm is electronic funds transfer at point of sale so LPS is essentially your swipe card reader for your all your Apple pay terminal if you're in America at the moment or if you're in any other part of what with American credit card and you don't mind paying currency conversion fees nominal rubbish coming to a country near you without currency conversion fees Apple pay whatever you like Google what has Madonna for allowing anyhow so arm although admittedly I would property trust Apple pay more than I would trust their Google wallet but then I have other trust issues with Google's opiate Google meaning trust is not missed my happy relationship and I are so I said out loud occasional trouble the epos machine put the card through processing the payment and he apologised for taking so long and good cursing that's fine a problem so I happen to say out loud to him and I don't think is an issue of time at that moment I said that's no problem on hurry near those behind bright casual dial just I want to impart to him that I was not concerned and there was a guy in the queue a few behind me and he says not whispering at all or some of us are mate wow animallike well okay so turn around our own ion nylon the big on confrontation okay so I generally don't use of this body that really got my backup and isolate said I turn around him and I don't exist to remember the exact words I said but I see said said to him that it wasn't this guy's fault and I should cut some slack and he should cut them some slack yet you know I'm in a guy just like fumes and muttered a bit and you went back to his knitting as they say that they are there's one in every crowded lies yeah I know and SI I'm gonna bats real money because IIR began RAM I would bet real money that he had never worked in retail yet because someone would work in retail could not have gone through even a few weeks in retail without having some kind of issue because you know you're fired up in the morning and go and punch in and some of the systems you have to have this you do things in the right order otherwise that that the price of telework online I won't unlock the trainee try to get that them putting up with the cash in the morning you there's always something in our menus when you start that is so old that you lose power summer trips are an extension leader pulls that out of all this this particular tells a bit sticky to bang at the right way to get to release whatever the hell it is always something out of five checkouts and one of them is dodgy our one checkout five grader with dodgy one roll your eyes yes can I help you sir knowing that you will be there for twice as long as you're on the dodgy terminal enemy are size 1 OR wrap up talking about tipping so we think about tipping arm as you know what it's pretty common here it is I know it's not common everywhere a lot of people are really taken aback by letter and understand so how would you describe tipping and when I say describe tipping I mean how would you describe tipping to someone who has never tipped anyone before now life is never heard of it how would you describe it and also what percentage or fractional dollar amounts would you consider for good service or for bad service arm tipping are usually exploited to people if this is a little extra gratuity it is a way they just can't say thank you for good service and to acknowledge that somebody you know has as a difficult carbon in retail also rest and it is just an extra well thank you very predominant Java taking good care of us can think I think that the pretty much understood standard here is usually around 15% of the bill and are as fiery as a percentage forum for bad service most of the people I know around here I think is pretty common here is just if we get better as we usually just occipital and then there is a boost there is a side issue related to tipping that I don't know if it's an issue everywhere awake probably definitely not an issue and in cultures where tipping is not really a thing that Lake is actually some legislation bound as forest payroll concerned here where an employer can actually pay you less than minimum wage EF you receive a fair amount of tips as compensation for your jar begin to account for that which really annoys me near because it is the tipping is I guess it is 1/3 extra supplemental gratuity and it's night guaranteed sale and it doesn't get from my point of view it doesn't it doesn't relieve the employer of their obligation to pay you for your time therein and services rendered but somehow they seem to think that it does because the customer is taken part of that bill I guess I'd honour it is shady to me as quality of wage yes yes exactly and thank you for summing up and I think you did a great job of that because frankly arm that mirrors my notes so thank you now the interesting thing is that there seems to be a narrative of sorts a prevailing wisdom perhaps you may recall that that's environments where tipping is predominance that service customer service is better and the thing is that I encountered this when I when I because in Australia we don't we don't have generally we just don't go a few places have tried to introduce it but you know it's generally not the done thing and as when I was growing up nowhere did it at all so it's our sort of a North American is in that sort of there trying to sort of pick up here but most people in Australia generally don't tip because while you know it's just not the weights done yet anyway arm and is also labour laws and so on in place saying that you can't have a to base wage like like you can in certain parts of America I believe so like USA go anyway are there was some consultants I worked with and now North America and they were very very well travelled and I mean very very well travelled they were also very very well-paid consultants mind you arm the yard there was a husband-and-wife team and is arm I won't always as last name Jim are wonderful man here very very sharp and is arm and also worked on some really called fenced off and down a dose good sometimes although not often you year after after a drink or two he would sort of loosen up a bit about some of the stuff that he done never anything classified you hit it he'd sat in the cockpit of biker are think it was an SR 71 or something which is an indomitable can say bits are in any case he was some telling me about his travels around the world and he had was of a firm absolutely firm's belief that tipping provide better service and that he had had much worse service in countries that did not have tipping a orchestra was similar to that yes it will mean right is that this is a prevailing arm that anytime we ought all except we always give a really good tip and I don't think it's a coincidence that I don't usually have to wait till long pizzas to get your refund water from a regular place I think if you're a repeat customer and they know you and they know to expect that from you than I think that there would be merit in that because that is AER yet that's the arm the food pellet idea right only only give you mallet are a fidelity push the button and I so if I gave you a good tip and you keep coming back and promptly and you can get a good tip in are you which is the whole point right but the problem is that that presupposes two things first of all the amount of money that people tip is based on the individual so the individual might be a good tip or a bad temper you or just normal to some people to say only give you $0.15 no matter what because I have to give your tip and I really don't care that much and I'm I met plenty people like that unless it's really really really horrible service I birthday you like your steak and you get a piece of wrap in which case you might complain about that I would anyway you and our you only give you a 5% tip the rat was tasty not 15% tastier aura so that I copy from that what the scientific okay am okay so arm the point is that's arm was appointment box I've lost my point now got goodness gracious me right so are tipping is based on individual and you cannot tell just by appearance whether someone is a good tip or not now people are to be in service industry in and in North America will tell you that day they can actually tell reasonably well you know who is a good dipper who isn't based on how they dress and how they talk bites truth is it still an ironclad guarantee so you if you get to know an individual who frequents the restaurants you will know they're good dipper or of the knots and you know that that's reinforce behaviour guarantee not however the law of averages would suggest that the more people you statistically chance your restaurant the more random variability you have in the distribution of who is and who is not a good dipper you should therefore unbalance it should even out for the vast majority of service unless you are truly exceptional and what you do and the restaurants truly consistently exceptional and what it produces because remember your tip is also proportional to the quality of food you're serving I say you're a waiter or waitress you bring out that food now is it your fault if the food is cold if it's been badly cooked if if someone is put you asked to get well guess what you know you aren't you just use carrier to the table get in on mean so you but your tip is now from is now linked to the quality of that food despite thank you had nothing to do with yet so I find that to be no somewhat tenuous link is anyway aura beyond all of the statistics and probability in & so forth and the conjecture conjecture conjecture there have been studies done this so I found a really interesting one call tipping and service quality are within subjects analysis was by two people Michael Lynn and Michael J Sturman from Cornell University in 2010 and it talks about our whelp he is the right to read verbatim the introduction it's morbid verbose but it I think it sums it up restaurant tips are supposed to be an incentive reward for the delivery of good service in order for tipping to service function consumers must leave large tips in response to better service numerous studies have found a relationship between evaluations of service and tip size but these studies have involved between subjects correlational designs so that mean the observed relationships could be due to extraversion friendliness generosity or other stable dispositional differences between tippers that affect both service ratings and tip sizes the current study attempts to rule out these alternative explanations by examining the tipping behaviour of 51 people across multiple dining occasions results indicated tip sizes are reliably correlated with service ratings after controlling for the identity of the tipper and therefore all potential stable dispositional difference confounds sort that translates to mean is that they think their studies better than everyone study because they were less biased yet anyway are it's an interesting stage is link to the show notes have a read through a few interested in their it does go on a lot more details to exactly what they did how they did it and so on but drawing on that are I found a blog post by by Jonathan MJ Porter was done mid last year and are he runs the lingering in San Diego they moved rather recently to San Francisco anyway and that only the running for eight years and I don't his art is restaurant and they switched from a tipping system to one without there was an 18% flat rate applied across all the bills so they refused to accept tips that is 80% flat rate when you came in they made you aware of it was on the yellow and it was one because it because this is an American it was extremely unusual so out one of only a handful of places that had that sort of policy in Australia that sort of a service fee flat rate as is normal rate but it is and is buried in the cost yet explode out it is very low-cost so anyway now he noted and again blog post is link in the shadows I encourage you to read is very interesting read are especially if you live in North America considering fascinating and noted that profits increased and service improved overall and goes on a whole bunch of reasons as that they thought as to why but I'll let you read through that are yourself and honestly it makes you question who tipping is really best for and really how much of a motivator actually is because while you if you would go flat rate and you getting increase profit and the ASO is improving overall and and and honestly I would suggest why the conclusions I draw from outsiders disturbing a throw this in the ring is that I think profits increased predominately because people would tend on average two under tip then to over tip and by setting it at 18% which is 3% above what you quote 50% as an average guide guideline whelp you know the majority of people especially in tough economic times they can tend towards 15% or lower so by fixing it at 18% you are already guaranteeing that all of your under tippers are going to essentially be tipping at the fixed rate that is above what they would ordinarily tip yet that went when you say profit analysis going to the business as a filter down to the service that are what they do is it so it's fixed salary is not to based okay so so so what I'm saying is that essentially they have no tipping right there model is like we have here in Australia and a lot of places in the world frankly okay so you're basically paying for the good 17 you've got a service surcharge on top of that you are refracted in yes exactly was broken and it's broken out as a service charge by S9 identify caller tip on the bill and are currently says that in the in the post but in apologies of the sale and the postponing rates against state insurance have looked interested but honestly are I think it is a fascinating experiment because that's done within arm US borders where tipping is has been commonplace for well as far as I could tell thoughtful forever for a very long time hundreds of years there are a justice on the topic of that actually are when I was when I went there are one of my many trips there was one occasion where early on I think I was in Los Angeles's arm for a conference actually and anyway IDR I noticed that the guy in the foyer got annoyed when I took my own bags because I would always take my own bags why would I not take my own bags then my bags in a jar but at his job and I didn't realise that you know it is like are so I have to let you carry my bags which I am perfectly happy to carry and I have to pay you to do something I don't act she wants to do that then I asked the others works so I think we might wrap it up at that point less erroneous you'd like to add are specifically are about now I think that that pretty much covers cool but was easy money laziness prize being a senior Johnny completely forgot that she completely missed this can lead into a DRM or something are well I was going to and then then I realised you were going in the direction that that I'm cool with that it should be as a separate show of itself the because there's there's so much to say but that there is there is and that certainly are we to and I definitely wanted to mention the tipper each thing when she broke tips is that something is really always annoyed me you exactly Selena being a high percent of our retail who would have thought her arm and I know that some people will think that is a weird topic to cover but frankly you it's something that I realise that I thought about it something that affects everybody that that selling buying and selling things and is is just part of life and yea it's made it may not be directly about technology but it's certainly something useful to learn to get your head around tipping get your head around are particularly sales pressure tactics and so on and frankly why I think everyone should serve behind the counter in customer service in a sales role potentially something like that in their lifetime preferably early so that for the rest of your life after that you won't be such a jerk to people that are doing that job and I have nothing but respect for people that serve behind a counter each and every day because Italia what in many respects it's a harder job than what I do for a living earlier so I have nothing but respect for that for those people there and whatever in the original premise was absolutely correct everybody should have to experience it at some point because they really can shoulder from prospective absolutely if not more about this you can reach me on Twitter and John Geagea that's jar agency at IDG why if you like to send any feedback pleases feedback from the website that we also find chance for this episode and the pod casts pragmatic now this topic you'd like me cover you can suggest environments once again are you consigned for free counter unified probation on Twitter to see show announcements and other related stuff like when the broadcasting live if you're enjoying this and hope you do are I like to thank our two sponsors of the show firstly for sponsoring pragmatic if there's anything you'd like to learn about and you're looking for an easy and affordable way to learn than can help you out instantly stream thousands of courses grammar experts in their fields of business software web development graphic design and lots and lots more visit LY to get a free seven-day trial and want to learn something new what are you waiting for and I'd also like to thank harvest for sponsoring pragmatic new sponsor if you want to track your time quickly and easily with the ability to quickly turn those timesheets in the invoices for your 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    Vic Hudson

    Vic Hudson

    Vic is the host of the App Story Podcast and is the developer behind Money Pilot for iOS.

    John Chidgey

    John Chidgey

    John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, software developer, podcaster, vocal actor and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John is a Chartered Professional Engineer in both Electrical Engineering and Information, Telecommunications and Electronics Engineering (ITEE) and a semi-regular conference speaker.

    John has produced and appeared on many podcasts including Pragmatic and Causality and is available for hire for Vocal Acting or advertising. He has experience and interest in HMI Design, Alarm Management, Cyber-security and Root Cause Analysis.

    You can find him on the Fediverse and on Twitter.