Pragmatic 30A: Coffee Follow-up 1

4 November, 2014


Follow up (Part A) to Coffee where Marco and John revisit Johns coffee setup, oxalates, different milk warmer/frothers, portafilters, cold-brew coffee, reasons why grounds are left behind when you pop an AeroPress filter off and lots and lots more.

Transcript available
This is pragmatic follow-up part A episode 30 coffee follow-up this month is sponsored by harvest harvest lets you start and stop at time of any task you might be doing anywhere you might be doing it mobile devices desktop web browser and someone you can keep track of your time if you're doing client work attending to know what projects and tasks are taking your time but even better you can use that information to create invoices directly through harvest which integrates easily with PayPal and stripe checkout harvest and get harvest or one and sign up for a free 30 day trial and start tracking your time and invoicing others simply and painlessly watch a 30 day trial is over and you realise how great harvest is use the coupon code pragmatic at the checkout and you'll save 50% off your first month and that applies to any of their plans hurry though because this offer expires on January 15, 2015 to be quick and I'm John Geagea and I joined me is Marco Armands Hayden marker very very good thank you we got quite a little bit for our follow-up on an episode are so I thought we should probably start talking about a few things first of all arm I've actually my setup has improved since that episode that might is gonna work was not worse I would start with an offence far more interesting lab Elga that as you know the during the setup of the shell rate as you copy and scope they learn that the year the Emperor may make had died or at the preamp I guess the: so I had just quickly switch and leadership by a few minutes to switch back to my old make so I have a have had to make downgrade that is USB powered at least one and get around the problem so sorry for sounding slightly worse than I usually do but the same as a centre for years before at the bounty make the sampling was a nice terrible 16 belatedly I think it is whatever it is about the robot customers and that is you is that is that what look at the bigger the biggest problem I think with the reply gatherers you can hear it a lot of people when the EDC I don't think it's that noticeable adding the bigger problem is like it just has like a certain resonance of certain military frequencies amicable settlement hijacker was probably both as a sort of thing I think that if you know what to listen for you can sort of Talbots robot customer but not much from these snipers also felt light out so money the RealAudio improperly here yet you but I'm on my much the same the ATR 2100 has a lot more switching noise and you got from a.m. from a robot customer so if someone knows what my alchemy Mike that the Baha'is doing okay so I had a lot of positive feedback about such pretty unhappy with the words you sound fine anyway so talk are but know when I she said setup away she referred to my coffee set up the microphone as this is a park as we noise like a bug are cardio restaurants one of those okay so am getting back on topic arm well okay so I am a know how much you arm enjoyed me describing my milk froth/warmer last time so you have another particular one is no longer in use arm which was the stainless steel mudslinging with the plunger thing that the froth milk up your again I was there was there was bad so instead of invested in an AM gravel BMF 300 I think it is and what is it so a milk warmer and froth are in the one it's what it does is you are you pouring Paul milk in modelling and is arm this thing has a are a small spinning elements in the middle of the bottom of the owner of the cup that basically is a inductively spun around and heated by the base you can set the temperature and basically poor in September he'd go away goes are and it's got to 2 different attachments while froth a lot more than the other arm the funny thing is I like a very very very small amount froth in the milk not too much so that the froth attachment that like really from setup assist in signing up with this like an inch and 1/2 of froth in my jacket that's ridiculous so anyway so I never use the extra from one very well I know you don't have milk in your coffee but for anyone else does I highly recommend that one is very very good and down anyway perhaps more interestingly is my grinder so I had lots of votes of support arm for being a manual and grinder I did you know how much you know it is this from people actually do manually and grinder, or who just like the idea because it is something I like the idea of until I started doing it when I was travelling and you quickly realise it is bringing teabags was way easier than trying to handwrite my own custom error Prescott the ongoing Well in the eye okay so let them not unlocking arm another name name is Barts Nicholas Ward Marcus Weatherall arm rams and because I naturally know what is full name is arm and he is only using his manual grinder because electric grinder died okay cassettes partial credit armband sigh arm he uses 1/3 click on his harrier grinder and Steve RNs so thank you to all those guys for backing me up that handwriting is awesome so now let me disappoint you or by saying I don't handwriting I've actually put I am surprised I am Sha shocked and totally amazed yes I know arm Saigon is of a bright soap receives prissy so precise item arm by you and really high up there are year but I did because I had to because the local summers being Australia socks when it comes to getting you how to get items so arm had look originally at the virtuoso which is the one that you recommended and are a lot of people frankly on on forms and so on speak very highly of you as I went for that one originally and the distributor in Australia anyone distributor for Branson and that's arm five census coffee and so I am there in Western Australia thing soon anyway so I message them and said hey this is not shown on your website what's the story on this it's me well unfortunately most of our customers prefer to spend a little bit more and get the next model up because it's got far more than a range of the of grind settings significantly more and once you did wasn't in the comparison because this is a very heavy very big yard electric motors and these things that are quite heavy and solid and robust as I'm sure you know and that makes it an expensive proposition to ship so getting it from anywhere else in the world was gonna cost me almost the value of the grinder in shipping so it worked out cheaper to get through the local distributor such that it would cost me the same animated at the next model up which is what I am doing so is reasonable yeah it came down to that and Saddam it's a beautiful grinder don't get me wrong but no again so no I do not hand grind anymore I still have on the shelf just in case I have changed my mind and I need to feel that beautiful arm tiring feeling but anyway ago so what's next star are you an ongoing you use the bin to grind into they you can actually get a Porter filter like the espresso arm filter basket for these things but seeing a sound using an error present invasive point arm I guess if I had a year in actual ridiculous machine then if Yasmin is come money on a machine doesn't all you have a grinder building the machine surely our calendar and the minute it is one of those I totally on one systems than youngest because most legitimate grinders but if you are if you go like really high and leg interlinking approved tumour or professional are level staff Mrs Roberts a ton of money for espresso but I would expect that keeping separate because in actual in a low-end commercial or high-end prisoner environment you would have those things be separate roles you dispose as I go because I've looked at different because you are now pay attention when I go and I have a coffee or look at the machine they use to make it and a lot of the machines a tag as it depends they asked never think about your rights are some of the machines they do someone they don't jump in any case some eyed i.e. artist I use the Yum I use the bin, grinder and I use the arrow prescript measure and I haven't quite got to the point of weighing my coffee but will get than just a minute arm I also am really happy that I found someone local to me this doesn't really affect anybody other than mould me probably but arm glasshouse mounds coffee is just up the road from me and they wrote their own so yes arm very happy with that so were and so is handy to have and we don't want a little bit about arm the cold press like coldpressed coffee called group gold of a live is somebody using our present days ago he is wanted the okay II Mike I made it have you and you create a new kind of thing I think I accidentally made, I had accidental coldpressed coffee and it was just weird arm so here's the thing sometimes I'm again is a bright and sometimes you know what it's like five in the morning and you're making a coffee forget things like 10 turning on the cattle and the brain doesn't connect the fact that when you're pouring it is no steam coming out K only press the thing down and you pouring like this finding is no steam in this thing what's going on and you realise that you've just made a cup of coffee with cold water and in the press and that it was just bit weird unite BDO be even so anyway I did a lot of research about this and we are she got some some feedback about some clinical data bodies and have you come across this star before arm Coles: yet I actually have yet so that the time has been around for a long time in a cold brew is as a trend I think pretty recent and tingling in the last couple years are becoming trendy and demanding arm but that the tidy corporate system has been around for as long as I've been a coffee nerd which is long in the last few years at least I think it's fairly old and it's basically like it like the error oppressive cold brew it's like the the least sexy but just as effective way to meet called can. You are like if you know you are trendy copies of these days you'll see these these giant like glass tower are also a science lab usually acutely legal handcrafted upscale Japanese corporate systems that exist in a collective fact it was like a whiskey distillery or alert your signs over's big coiled glass Tubes and these big-league little at this big tank then everything flows down into a little tennis bout that slowly drips the copy out into the into the cold brew be seen in its very very fancy looking however from from what I understand are from people who monitor these things the tidy is just as good at cold grouping is that the week-old real works is not particularly finicky at it in the it's basically busily brewing coffee boat using Neihart water and so the process of getting the coffee into solution or whatever the the technical term would be are just excellent long and does is very different arm at an and in some people like the datatype I personally don't care for it but there but I recognise why a lot of people like it arm is not acidic in any way well and yet be careful with the word acidity Al Qaeda has no bitterness maybe the CAL a click filling it like people have different me know that there is the scientific definition of like acid versus Bessemer committee Excalibur and in their there is like people associate with stomach asset and heartburn and that's a little bit differently cars to an and is also there is a taste using an acidic taste citrus are so it's it's it's a hard word to use in awareness not to mislead somebody and unfortunately that's prevalent in the cold brew scene where a lot of people will say I only 80s drink I prefer a drink called brew because lower acid and that's I don't think that a lot of our science behind the effects of that are except it does tease different and it and it does lack of the the acidic test accident that heart brew coffee has usually so it does tease every I'm not but I would be very hesitant to to assume or even tell anybody that there is a indifference to things like stomach acid shall while the bottom line arm and some things of justice quickly to John Paul Pollock acting as Brown's focusing on that link about the other told his cold brew stuff when my understanding is because the attempt is much lower you need to have a much longer arms well caught steeping time I guess are of the cold of the cold water with a coffee grounds not to extract anything from it and my problem I think was that when I made my accidental cult cold pressed coffee arm Vance are unfortunately was not it was not actually suspended in solution long enough it what there was not enough time to actually leach out much of the fly precisely got arm very weak tasting yeah so it is not representative of what a Cobra copy would really feel like it was just a mistake and yet it would have sucked in and near the wet the week-old rework its accuracy in the Vasanthi pictures it's a giant clear picture that you put icewater and tea bags and it makes court sun tea are neither usually live outside in the sun at Bruges it is seriously not have an Australian know that sounds little and it's a list an American thing it's an intimacy by hippies are my mum has had many of these things and and its it works in the sense that many new-age things court work in that they can achieve the desired effect that the reason why it works has nothing to do with being in the sign it's because if you put teabags in water at pretty much any temperature long enough it will brew the tea though it it works just because it's sitting in the sun you could put it in the closet would work at perimeter seems bid arm to protect my temperature differences you so called ricotta was very similarly if you put coffee beans coffee if you put coffee grounds and water into solution and leave them there long enough it will brew like it it will eventually get there are and that the vessel that sitting in doesn't have a whole lot to do with that epithet on the corner and the scaling of the heart brew then you have you have things changing faster you have more extraction you have different in a sliver of changes happening faster because the heat of the lottery and you increase the speed of of this process but soon therein in Coldwater it just it's a very slow process and it can be sitting in pretty much anything that the mean difference like with with the tidy and other systems like that competitor just like putting it in an amazing jar and put a lid on the main difference is that the systems are built for this tender have some kind of filtering Bilton Agas if you if you have to like filter it manually after it's done brewing and negotiators giant no jar of coffee with grounds and it can append felt that you import through people felt terrible takes a while some of that so if you want one of the pre-med systems it's it's easy it's not necessarily particularly different testing or clearly better and is that that's why that the tidy system is cheaper thinkers like dirty budget and IIR in the URL that there is a link in the show notes check it out I actually didn't are check to see how much it cost to be honest but some year so it's there and it's a very young $37 and hours under $35 and Emily about so it's now it's it's an inexpensive system it really just like a big plastic thing and his ticket over a gyro minute it couldn't be simpler and less sexy but it if you like called brew it properly works just as well as anything else you are you defining a oppressor sexy then buy in contrast not presently be a oppressor similar it's like what what frustrates a lot of coffees are snobs and and people who loved the boutique handmade high-end Japanese glass things like you would frustrate a lot about the Pres is not fencing and what is even more frustrating is that you put it in taste tests next to his fancy machines usually are oppressive ties or wins your assets you have the slick 25 dye plastic plunger that is made by a frisbee company and it is the best clockmaker in the way and that got appropriately a member reading a couple years ago that some some group that a big test as against the clover at the 11,000 I'm assuming Starbucks and by the company big drama and and it and in people it and send anything either matched or exceeded that the readings of the clover for $25 and have had clover coffee and not Starbucks what had I did have his eyebrows were added at Cathy Grampian Brooklyn where and it I've had I've had clover coffee and it is the it's good but it's not better than the Arab sets are not selling is worth the hassle they were so addressed people nuts and in the wider fancy coffee equipment when the cheap unsexy plastic thing is just as good or better than the fancy thousands of dollars in a custom boutique thing but that's just how it is sometimes and I think it's over or better off for it because now like another can have an 11,000 dichotomy in my house but I can get 20 photo repressed for and I can recommend to anybody exactly and I've had a lot of fun people come back and have said as a result of our episode they've gone invested in one and over and above their oppressed so arm you they've invested in 20 photo bicycles well's army but the point is that you know it is it is a good product and you it sells itself in a irrespective of whether I should have asked for a cup arm from Roby when I am with the episode and the might of the people people do love this the press and I love mine so it's all good but some gay right so a few observations arm about that that I've had since since loss of a seductive into Munson's eastern Vermont since we talked about it so arm and gone further along in the my journey if you want air anyway essentially when I said okay so arm I found it freshly ground coffee will actually come off the rubber plunger on the end of the press almost perfectly cleanly when I when you pop off into the bin are but if it's not freshly ground even as much as like 12 hours later are it doesn't come off as like it sticks to the rubber that I found anyway and down as a little thing but still it's an interesting arm the convenience of it and that is totally no sense in a I've noticed inconsistency in like when my coffee sticks more than other times and usually it doesn't stick so that maybe that's an unknown layer I just assumed it was either a fairly random unlike how exactly a squeeze at that time or of how much water was left on outer how long and if you if you wheat even a couple of minutes before cleaning it before popping the ground on arm I usually get hotter and worse like if you do immediately duly better and it's probably because there's more moisture against the plunger but Aaron could be actually because once you feel once you take the pressure off than any moisture that is on that that boundary layer would be drawn back into the grounds because normal pressure forcing out so maybe that is it, I tried NCR goes personalising I observed I thought okay what it seems to happen because II tend to got into a routine and I tend to take it off at the same time cycling at the same hour time after I've actually pressed pretty much irrespective of what grounds I use and I and I have to pre-grind stuff because again the ground right is your brilliance wonderful allotment but it's also incredibly loud even much louder than my hand grinder and that cause a problem because if if I'm doing this it five in the morning I wake everyone up if I did that it's it's really bad enough with the cattle in the arm and in the milk froth but some you know it's like I can't I can't run the grinder at 5 AM no arm I wake everyone and they will go come and zombie mode and murder me before I get a chance to go to work so yay slicing is that I pre-grind and store in airtight container and I've noticed that when I do that it affects you the pre-grinding really does affect it so get them at the right so arm which of concentrations and had a few people come back in and quizzed me a little bit about how much I use because I wasn't sure of the time so what I've done is some distant numbers for the people are interested is that I have a large thermos cup which I didn't talk about in the actual episode but arm factor may import our tips are not sure but anyway and are known outside of the episode anyway but that this particular cup it's arm holds about 500 mills arm should feel those influences but anyway and is arm so it 16.9 ego. These are so so-called 16 ounce cup then and is our I use three our cups little Aero scoop Aero press groups now I wades I weighed that and it works out at around I see you used a 8 g if with a three setting on your press or 12 g before setting on Aero press appropriate and you have want to cups per day come that last time is the bit that shocked me is that I only ever make arm before setting equivalent which is about 1050 mills of coffee I actually use three scripts with ways at my grind setting weighs 44 g some actually using an insane amounts of coffee and I did not realise how much I was making until you told that I might I I checked I doublechecked and I triple check and make holy crap I am making wake three times the concentration well I think I'm the weird one here I think I'm the one making too little coffee because Bula can handle more caffeine than what that has an arm if you if you get like it if you authentic copy shopping are poor over a girl in a blessing in the US. Towns divide delegate if you want defensively is arm you get offensive for an hour if you if you asked them if they if they if you pay attention how much coffee are using to make a small port ran their smile is pretty sure 16 ounces roughly and it is you know about the seminar is about 6 ounces 26 ounces with a poor of the usual use something on the lines of 22 to 32 g and that a lime notice makes it using apparently but but that it that is a light bite in order to get that amount of flavour out of poor over a drip you have to use a luckier I just want to relay I prefer the present because you get a very bold sliver you get it you had a very strong amount of flavour out of using relatively little coffee and so because I can have more than that for caffeine reasons are unable to have used overall it better and more coffee with an error press they would be able to with with dribble four of you well I really need to consider maybe two scoops but I find I like the three so in any way but one thing how finally are you grind out okay yes that was the next thing so I'm using so number six on my on my grinder which is in a ghost up to 14 are yes that's right the same grind settings I think as the as the virtuoso but it's got the fine grind between 80 K for each of those things are between 12 you've got a decay as well see Gallagher won a Rwanda guard the II don't screw I know but I leave in the middle like I don't really care about that fine grinding and society came over but arm are not on my Ivory explain why got melodic but anyhow so you setting number six are is what you use and down you use the same so the advice I imagine it's the same surprise like yellow you are probably as functionality but are you this is the thing a sigh I like having them as I like having a Zlata in technically it's actually not mate because I'm doing 50-50 right so I'm doing half half milk half coffee so I reckon that if I cut out the milk notice went to a straight black coffee that I could get away with only the two scoops and maybe even Stephen the one hour because having that much coffee in the Aero press is an issue for pressing it especially if you go to fine grind but the other thing I found it was interesting is that freshly ground coffee is much harder press compared to coffee that's been pre-ground once pre-ground and its dried it's a lot easier to press at the same grind setting which I observe experimented with which is interestingor not to print too surprising because when you grind that battle that allows a lot of moisture that was trapped inside the coffee beans actually go dissipate so the actual that's interesting you so busy from your point of you that's how I wonder if that action was happening there in art because it could be like in a fruit like the fresher the coffee is the more CO2 comes out of it when what a headset yes and and so maybe what makes it hard to push retro coffee is getting others error backing up in the press as you're pushing down possible but an honour that's that's worth scientific people are telling us about work but yet there is this is so it is realising so you seen usually 44 g and Erebus yarn that so when I make iced coffee I make so much my method of making a scoffer with the Aero process to meet as the strongest concentrate like they possibly can lodge a regressive cause of the document is great for minor used a user concentrate to make sure I scoffer like an old-fashioned glass table so anyway arm and to do that I live establish that roughly like the most coffee I can generally fit comfortable unit error press is about 40 g go into think that you're doing this year as you mean cup that is crazier that is in addition it is being a lot of Cathy and when that's that's one thing but it also be expensive and that's just that's so much coffee like I can imagine well this is like a set as a one once I have you realise I have no basis for comparison arm except talking to you because most people I talk to coffee orders go down to know the coffee joint in the basement of the building and get that get that coffee which is a sadness thing called Toby's estate is the being that they use are but it's all right but you know it's did store coffee rates on monies now doing it my way but I have no basis for comparison so you know I just kept adding scoops to like the taste and coughing up to 3 so you can try try dropping the milk and you and that's because if you try to get a very strong coffee flavour while also adding half of it being Melvia Athol Loudermilk to overcome beginning of the milk will dull the flavour of the goddess so you're having to put forth quick errors in one double copy because it had Melvia like me that a pretty sure that your product yet all the other thing to keep in mind also markers because this is a thermos it actually keeps it warm for several hours like quite quite warm actually so you'll still be quite warm after two hours hour it does take me between 1 to 2 hours to drink it is like you could whereas if I made in an open coffee mug arm if I don't drink that within you may be 30 minutes you'll be too cold and not not really very nice to drink so I think that I am I my out my excuse is that I make it stronger so I can last longer ego I'm not sure if I believe that long ago that the rights and let's move on because it it's there are where I want all the cost as I sat down across the numbers now had time to figure this out so I knew I realise before even start on this that cost is relative okay obviously as you hammer to cost me to buy the stuff it's can vary dependent on where you are in the world here if you roast your own again we talk about that last time because of the cost argument for that but I'm talking about pre-roasted coffee about pointers from drawing the line right now and I know that's the next step but believe me it was hard enough to get to the step let alone roasting will see what happens in the future that dropped the milk first and then you get into because you're Western so much money to struggle for it okay At that stage show weldment well although I will give a shot of promise you're given a shop so our I now have a haphazard sample for different ones are for different kinds of coffee quite a few different ones actually are the Colombian still on the list I feel terrible so that your favourite so far it's on the list or get to wear white Colombians Camelot's canyons my fellow Kenyan aunt Alyssa is remembering okay Colombians borrowing is like a goodwill Kenyan then I've tried diversity go Kenyan fine arm right and there is a wonder great things are where I live is that it's there's a whole bunch of different kinds of produce that the grazing area like we have strawberry farms in our back door step macadamia farms are pineapples are they grow their nice but not not is not the ones up and in the tropics but they're still pretty decent are so there's lots of nice buy stuff around here and up into the mountains and in Stanthorpe close to the border of New South Wales and you've got all your stone fruit sends you all that sort of stuff is really cool where we live raspberries and so on one the other things we can grow very small area of Australia is coffee and up on the mountain ranges behind where I live so I say behind relevant amount 39 2030 miles away but still close-ish arm there is a place they call themselves swine coffee and they make they grow their own as organic and they race their own and package it and sell it is $28 a kilo you buy it from their shop fronts are about the same you buy online plan that includes shipping so works out to about $11 US a pound are so that's not that's actually not about at my now wife my favourite coffee arm is also I found dissembling around I mentioned Toby's estate before the glass as mound blends they average about $38 a kilo and it works at a $15 US a pound so I'm not sure how that compares with some pre-roasted coffee from that you would get single original or blends in your area arm you around here in a good good single origin copy from a reasonable roaster European minimum of $60 about are probably if you get a certificate from one of the fancier more upscale agouti rosters like Sundowner or at places like that you're looking at more like 25 million thoroughly impounded Maori please are usually more expensive arm usually meld at places like ship you're looking at about 30 bucks about arm and allow times the lot of them have switched to using 12 ounce bags to discredit vacancy not as expensive arm but anyway Ayer Yemen is one of the reasons why roast because I can go up another reason is that onerous copies by firebox about merely seven if you really fancy starting but is not much more than that and I get from swim arrears like I'm Living to mastitis are ever going to resting for Maria's is by far the best site to not only learn how to roast but also to buy the restaurant and by the bins are so definitely support them arm you are minutes I totally any argument about coffee cost if someone has a problem with amateur class I totally understand that because a lot of a lot of good coffee is very expensive in of European 25 bucks a pound something that's inner that's that's good money after a while so she could drink is especially fidgety for the foreground who would do such a thing so arm this the other thing that on the cost equations are so disturbed to continue on my side of things I also have arm what I call my cheap backup coffee so when I run out of my nice coffee I've got this cheap backup in the fence from Costco arm and it's actually a name brand it sits in the browser to Reno quality are Oro I think I know how to pronounce correctly but the ego and it's 20 bucks a kilo which whatever that works out to an dollars without so they see quite relatively cheap compared to the others and it's is there in case of emergency and I try not to use it too often emotive and the rest of this year it possibly you may be luckier than don't know guarantees but do any cases actually so it's nice but it's it it needs sweetener it needs you've even some of the put syrup I don't put syrup in my nice coffee so I bias want to copy a glass as mound land I do not actually anymore I do not add syrups and half the time now not in any sweetness because I because that the coffee itself to stay so much nicer are you don't need it and as one finding is a nice coffee don't need this weakness is only the syrups and eating that Dragon drinkable which is terrible Arthur suggested anyway are so as my taste the sort of changing and evolving on finding that so it works out so if I make a nice cup of coffee where arm with that the Swan for example of the dollar 50 a cup and you compare and contrast that what what you would pay are at a store bought coffee and saw coffee could be $3.04 dollars some places even are you looking at six dollars flat sort of size depending on where you go and I can do it for a dollar 50 so making it at home more or work with a narrow press works out significantly cheaper at somewhere between 1/4 arm to half the price depending upon where you get from store converter store bought plus you get what you want but if he is advised that she coffee off underfoot sweetener in order put syrup in an otherwise it's just it's to bluff it's difficult to drink I find an pleasurable to drink some kind of at that point where it then cost me dollars 60 because that because the syrup in the swing across money so in a shrug and here the go I think that the my conclusion is if you pay a bit extra for a nicer coffee then you you don't have to add anything to it and it works out being cheaper in the long run so honestly that's that's my conclusion and you might be that that the person who I know who was put by far the most start into cheap cost it's about a gits it's about economy I know I deny I guess so I strongly know why that is now that you've put that up tonight is all about what I tend to I can't explain it this can run with it okay this is why I am here do. Yes you stop me what you are not resort to say so write it when you do understand her move along through the notes okay so arm now I did also measure our alright so i.e. I talk about depressing thing about how was heart harder and I did research and this is about done because when you push our water water through sand there is this effect or granular cohesion so arm modest levels worthy of mentioning is that that surface tension and granular cohesion is what causes all come together and so the initial and the more you press the harder it gets depressed after a while arm which is interesting but in any case arm oxalate's right now for those that have that follow my twitter feed on and so on know that I had about of kidney stones are two months ago and that and it was pleasant and by that I mean it wasn't and is my urologist at the time asked me if I drink coffee and I sort of note did the eyes darting left-to-right say maybe and he said well you know do you have it with milk and my okay yes I do I know Marco doesn't approve but I do have it with milk excellence good because adding the milk which now has lactose and is arm is thought to bind oxalate's in the coffee and oxides are naturally occurring arm calcium based compound are the come from different seeds and beans and some of which there is something in coffee but the problem is it's actually because I was only my hands up a mark of an excuse adding milk arm like a medical reason because it prevents are all it will apparently prevents getting dog kidney stones in my case because everyone is different different people probe of different peoples kidneys processor differently so anyway turns out that there's all these different studies that now say the opposite side she don't know what to think anymore arm but my urologist was pretty sure none I send this link actually only found this link during the week because I was looking into this before the follow-up on my gear I have to talk about this so are his quote from one of one of them one of the many studies this is the best and I found that it has now been shown although don't tell me the name of study or anything about the study sure just it's has been shown that the amount of oxalate and coffee and tea is actually relatively low and caffeine affects a particular hormone in the kidney arm and antidiuretic hormone in such a way that it leaves the production of more dilute urine therefore decreasing the risk of kidney stone formation so the data currently suggests a goes on to say that drinking a single 8 ounce cup of coffee per day can it decrease the patient's risk of developing kidney stones by 10% are warriors with tears a proximally 8% and has nothing to do with the milk in it so much that urologist try to tell me that adding adding milk was a good thing because it would be better for kidney stones but whatever so I no longer have an excuse not to have black coffee Lego so you should be happy with that response is definitely the first time that medical common wisdom has ever been completely the opposite of correct really you never have before okay yeah it's I liken it to be the butt of this margarine argument so in another six months on release thing it says you know you you absolutely if you don't have butter yea give you killing yourself and then it will be note for don't have margarine which is based on canola oil and say you are it's complicated right that actually a scan of the request what is the current wisdom I don't I've given up trying to keep track which is one that is good right now butter or margarine yet but is but is back but butter is butter is now the good that it goes back to what is it salted or unsalted consult is back apparently world than the adventitious dinner than it's just like salting a somersault is fine a lot of salt is bad minutes that I should be having a teaspoon no actually it's funny I caught my older son having having literally having a spoon of salt one afternoon and I what why how to back a note this sometimes kids do things annually why why I get on your site confiscated assault arm and the wife said that but it's true actually happen rights okay so arm the actual problem of getting towards the bottom of the cup so I'd I'd abdominal or thinking and research about this and because you remember last time I talked about how the taste of the coffee changed as you got down to is upon the coffee and you said that could be could be caused by the fact it's in a stainless steel arm in a thermos and they could be leaching some flavour into the coffee and it certainly is a possibility however got me thinking because I had sugars and/or sweetness to my coffee while the other problems is that our sugars will typically what one where okay so when you add a solid into a liquid you agitate the solution and that will assist that will increase the speed which dissolves but you will reach a point where you actually saturate or supersaturated solution to the point which you cannot actually dissolve anymore and is temperature dependent so fine adding sugars or sweetness to my dream to my coffee then as the temperature lowers some of that may precipitate out of solution and that will affect the taste because it's no longer dismiss no longer dissolved in solution so won't taste the sweetening to the other thing are as well that I knew that I thought about is that our will because I had milk to mine and because you don't add Adml to yours that will also change because milks are that the taste of the milk when you profit up are actually changes the way that your your taste buds interpret or perceive sorry it's it sweetness because it increases the solubility lactose and and that affects because as it sets all the bubbles will eventually come out of solution so that that frothing up of the of of the milk will actually dissipate to the point which arm you know you've lost that bit of sweetness so as as the the cup sits there it gets colder some of the sugars may come out of solution and are that the milk will actually start to taste less suites that will all drive it to taste a lot less sweet are and because of the way I make my coffee that actually is a big difference from start to finish and the duration of time also potentially leaching from the container so arm so that was worth mentioning also heard and I don't know how true this is I have done a lot of research on this and other minerals in the research on this but I've heard that art that that that coffee like that that certain compounds and start to break down almost immediately after its brood and so even if you have no extra flivver influences and even if you are putting all my jackrabbits can identify out of it like you're doing but even if you're doing any of that stuff arm that the flavour of coffee just changes over time just as these things break down and it and it very well could be just doing a few hours during the time between when you start a thermos for new finish it arm so I have heard that before a I don't know if it's true or how true it is butter that certainly sounds plausible cool the other thing that I thought about was backwash and I know this is one of those seeking sort of subjects but have you heard that am I come on I gotta cover this if someone brought it up you know how arm you drink out of less a bottle of Coke and is people talk about Will every time you take a swig and you know you actually end up with backwash of saliva back in the drink and bottomed at the bottom it's all saliva or something never heard that what kind of mouth technique it is people who don't know usually I'm I'm sure there is like a very tiny amount of saliva because you know it the liquid is contacting your lips and so a very small amount of saliva that is on your lips and near the front of your mouth mate fall back down the glass when liquid falls back down but I can imagine this is a significant amount especially nowhere near significant enough such that it would eventually totally dilute the liquid in the cup and you be left with only your own saliva that is crazy unless unless you like setting it into your mouth swishing around and spitting most of back out every set are inaccurate I think your mouth technique and use and what exactly an hour ago you're absolutely right and the problem is that while the problem is that I mentioned that know the problem is that people have actually gone to the trouble figuring this out our because while a arm there are other people that it is curious like me so what are they do they actually are that I found a site that did this as an experiment is not as is, the MythBusters style thing aside this that the site was called cockeyed science which is kind of a funny name but anyway are and they didn't expand with bunch of different kinds of drinking container saving from you alumina/aluminium cans arm with straws without straws now coffee cups know that sort of thing and I did as they put are dying in their mouth of sorts arm anyway details and then the Lincolnshire and have a look if you're interested and they monitored to see how much of it was actually backwash and up back in the drink turns out that it has a lot more to do with the kind of container and the skill of the drinker so I guess you will be sloshing around spit back in perhaps but anyway are so they founded the wisdom of the ceiling I never I never realise this is like a skill that might substantially differ between people but I'm sure apparently is and is are they found that aluminium cans and straws were the worst offenders and I guess anything about O'Connor make sense to the lip on a minium hand would retain some of that some of what was left are better me again depends on your technique I suppose but distraught especially are depending on on I guess how you release this God I despise the how you release the suction on the straw I guess could you get out of that I know I know I'm digging a deeper hole for myself run out okay anyhow so looking at it though saliva is actually 99.5% water so guess what coffee is there's another thing is that you know it's not going to sink in separate this thing is it so that the first first assumption is one that you get a lot of saliva back in the drink second problem is there's a perception either rises to the top or sinks to the bottom because it's a different density will know it's non-different density because it is water that is like .5% of other compounds and saliva in a and most of which will have no taste so it's like well okay arm it is negligible most likely for drinking coffee out of any of the standard gimme I don't know about you but I never drank a copy of in a minium can all with a straw so probably unlikely to be an issue arm so I think that the register wrapup why that the last few steps a taste of what they do I think that the best explanation I could find is that it tastes worse because you're sad that is the last sip of coffee to go make another one is also the oldest sip of coffee and the coldest yes exactly which is far more honestly probably is but they go so hopefully that's answered all the people that arm brought in our yes all that feedback yes so yeah arm of we listen have awesome listeners are awesome okay arm radio arm there are some people it has some feedback say there was an episode while stirring coffee shop and whilst they were drinking coffee which is kind of nice therapy people were from stumps and stump down Starbucks are but anyway are lots of people recommended just like you do that I stop putting quite a quote crap in my coffee out which I'm improving on I am improving on so you have had a look they actually said that they actually did yes so that's amazing along a year are dairy patents setting a new Aero press after show either a few others as well and dumb are and data was nice are hard dear me out there are lots of people have made made mention is arm most amount for because had about an episode are only just edged out another previous episode that year was so cynical people and I thought it was odd when we did this originally burning our we also talked about the different blend taglines you know the different names you like the mountain blend sort of thing there are other meaningless marketing well yeah that's it and are my God is so funny sometimes Dean Murphy arm on Twitter sent through a picture for his arm from his roaster of choice and some of the taglines they use the two that I thought were hilarious were sticky dates and a jammy wagon wheel I have no I'd what is a wagon wheel no I do not awaken or taste like levelling a jammy wagon wheel but there you go jammy as in J AMM i.e. get it maybe that's it's baobab it's the English euphemism for something I don't know I jammy dodger and owner which is a biscuit I don't get one that sorry cookie waiver right arm few people support mouth the hell it takes to hand grinds are Brian Hamilton said takes a fireman's handwriting with a cup of copper as their oppressors are suggesting it didn't take much longer are I have my lecture grinder and I'm sorry but now I have to disagree with that are but anyway the difference between five minutes and eight seconds GR yah that's it that's true so five minutes of therapy versus eight minutes of efficiency is okay former Saul and Alan I can say no more so hopefully people actually were arm either some people said shy are shamefully or proudly that they were drinking folders swallow are listening to the episode which I thought that was interesting so Brian C yes thank you year he enjoyed watching the show listening the show Kai said watching listening to the show arm while sipping Folgers sites great and for those arm Aussies and ask it's kinda like calmness Café blend 43 but anyway archetypical arm mention what what's Folgers because that's in there is an American brand so I'm wondering how it was possible that it took in the company 43 attempts to make to make a coffee blended as bad as forgery I don't know arm yeah I don't know might my problem is that arm I honestly did this history blend 43 like it had somebody with eight they had something like 40 or 50 different blends and it was the one that was the most popular or something and in blind taste test thing this on this some history behind and I are going to follow for the follow-up on that one but anyway it doesn't matter it's an Australian thing and no one else in the world has to drink it I will buy I tried it and enlighten really but it's sort of the staples are you going to in most workplaces and that's what I have that I have attentiveness Café blend 43 on the table and you can make your instant instant is coffee with which really isn't me I sound so horrible since I sound horrible I say that's not real coffee because it just doesn't isn't what I tried to judge when people said driven horrible coffee but it's really hard not to judge this it is a once you've made it like you grab one student when she got nice coffee grinder depressed that you drink it it's just so much nicer and how can you drink that will and there are reasons to drink crappy coffee unite if one reads major be used on care and its find if you care get whatever you can win you get coffee that satisfies things you care about convenience cast availability whatever that's fine arm but but if you if you do care and you if you if you care and you could be drinking fancy coffee and you used RN because you like you know just don't though putting in the effort arm that scanner sad to me like it again if you clarify that spread the love that I care about and it is easy arm but if you do care there is the whole world out there are and you're covering with milk sugar local sonic account of the strongest form on the last page now yes so arm rights a severance via Twitter are his fellow Mexican coffee suggested I give it a shot it's on the list I'll get to at some point arm he wrote a zone using an iron skillet is right about 6 pounds so far and counting so yet that's interesting i.e. are not many people came back and said we also rose like Marco but he was one that did arm Scott will see our via Twitter arm recommended the trailhead and as Amazons coffee someone you've ever tried trailhead and is is that from the hours are from neurotrauma I don't know or is asleep mountain blast fresco Ophelia what is that he had made don't okay well undertakers and they haven't tried it and the only one I have several I know this stuff is common in North America and an CEO but maybe it's because like here for example Toby's estate you'll find everywhere in our is a there like a big coffee go blends company in Australia that that ship to bunches a different café's and your sealevel sign up everywhere several I knew that's what that was but apparently not that's okay that to be sound delicious taste Toby's estate sounds arise too bad but honestly okay arm I IMAC going to buy archaeology at some point and grinder myself and make myself and see if I can do a better job than the café does downstairs but that's that's on the list sample at some point the coming months or so gave friends show Peter Evans's arm via Twitter threatened to build a zone ball mill to instead of a grinder I'm honestly not sure if that's an attempt to polarise coffee if that's the point arm militia had a particle size consistency would work with a ball mill because the last ball mill I wasn't planning to do with was polarising coal coal fired power station was one really allow precise visitor bunch massive ballbearings but no maybe is getting on anyway arm our friends show Simon pilot via Twitter and are also in-person recommended bunker coffee for locals from Brisbane are also Odin doesn't is not a fellow Brisbane might recommend LTE in the valley so if your Brisbane items in show arm check those out either on my lists are and I'll get to that sound they look pretty nice arm also friends show David Lagasse via Twitter noted that he is the same thing is that I do so yet thumbs up and Alan are Chris Gonzales rose on his blog arm sparks journal about his coffee habits were spurred on by the episode so was I resisting to read how yah about his error presently does Islington show notes arm but as he doesn't listen to the show regularly I can I can reject his apology anyway for not listening the game and his here at the gate arm that in mind if you read the article makes sense our flooring asked on Twitter arm and many guests are that the outer music from the last episode was actually a medley of the year of the fish a song that was the arm use for your bills the bill analyse podcast theme for the last most half of it is that if you remember anyway so yay to your listeners if you got the reference for Shane if he didn't arm and you should go reckless to build and analyse anyway okay arm coffee napping so friends show and I have no idea how to pronounce Simon mangle it but he we go make my cage right what Kautsky is my best effort I'm really sorry mate anyway probably much air may be much but at and he centre in Arlington article on Vox about coffee napping I had never heard of this come across this before I had and I think it's in rumblings but the generally know and I read this is a very interesting arm it in with the only problem is that they said like we haven't actually observed this happening in experiments we just are pretty sure this is what happens arm so you take it with a grain of salt but are its pretty interesting and certainly silly seems to match arm anecdotally the way I feel when I'm tired and I have coffee or our copy after an outpouring or a choose a nap or coffee or both is this really seems to matter if you accept that arm just it works sorry owner while I honestly my problem is that in getting to sleep before the rush of coffee really hits me and then prevents me from going to sleep as my problem is I can't actually get to sleep quick enough unless already exhausted which why would I then be drinking coffee to get so if it works for you and what that's exactly at least so so that the theory here is that our your brain feels tired as is an adenosine yes however have the various countries in eight as adenosine binds to certain reactors you bring feels tired and this is a natural natural process your brain apparently does with just time and also while doing intellectual work and this makes you feel tired and then when you sleep the adenosine reactor receptors that make you tired I can actually cleared out to make way for future tiredness arm and the way caffeine works is caffeine competes with the adenosine for the same receptors and therefore blocks adenosine from taking them so account artificially keeps you feeling awake because your brain is tired things are heading their plugs physically arm and so the theory is are that if you if you're already very tired when you start to drink coffee Pilates of these these receptors are already full of adenosine and so it's night later caffeine is a hotter time being effective because like you are ready to entirely get it can compete as well with Ari for receptors basically an AI help product mix and bail just freak out cries with left the way improper manliness is this acclamation but as I apologise if I am and was in training of the high-level review of what this article seems to be saying you are anyway so the idea is if you drink coffee and in falsely with only 20 minutes than our as the coffee gets to your justice system and starts to take effect in the bloodstream you will already be asleep and the brain will be clearing out these receptors and so the coffee will arrive just in time to occupy the newly empty receptors therefore when you wake up the coffee will have bound these receptors adenosine we blocked from joining it again for over a long time and then you will you will therefore be more awake and more alert for longer than if you had done either a copy by itself or a nap by itself and its ants in interesting arm interesting theory are you gonna know how much signs there is behind this potentially theory and I have found just anecdotally that are when I'm really tired like accurately lit ever having a big lunch and retired electric light in afternoon RII have found a found that coffee by itself doesn't really give me a week and a lot of times I will have copy trying to stay awake realise it's not doing anything working horribly and barely staying awake and in a tricyclic Nats got a quick nap and we cover jewellery so I can have as I felt the facts and seen behaviourism myself that leasing the backed up the back of this may be what's happening I've also found that the best time to have coffee and then I don't think it's thinking it's a trade travelling reset relic you have a cuppa coffee before the NAB then taken out and try to we employment your adding if you do that having the better deal to statistic the nap and then have copies as you wake up you obviously I am sure the difference in Howard in lengthy the amount of adenosine is built up in in the meantime thereafter is a very small difference here is just much easier to do that yesterday exactly and that's what they anyway like it would work for me but then that would make it not coffee nap and so by guess my problem is that arm okay hands at the hands up in some people can actually fall asleep arm very quickly I just have to not be one of those people so arm go bitten anyway I thought was interesting is that they've seen that link in it was it was as deftly interesting so arm link initiative interested in more about that so a gate arm these qualities are coffee and how much you can make with our present and honestly I I went mad at a are my wife's 40th birthday party which was a few months ago just before the keystone incident and only made seven of them in a very short period of time with the press and yet I think it's really hot after a while I May rinse under cold water trying to ward down if we make the next one and it's are you making multiple coffees with a narrow press one after the other is is not necessarily sufficient so arm Dean Murphy also writes would have mentioned that some he prefers his irrepressible solo cups up V 64 to 3 cups and French press for three or more cups so have you ever arm body what are your experiences do you ever make coffee on masslike arm when you have a get-together or something and you make a lot of it would you order which is usually present a case or would you what you done well because I'm 25 hours eight I actually own three error presses one of them is like they want is breaking onto outlets can be cracked and the sides I was that it after a long time arm but as I actually have to the use regularly and therefore that therefore a commitment away from each other on press so we can be like these are the ratios related applicant coffee we like et cetera arm so I do that and I have used the two-hour press technique to make coffee model he binding on occasion but that being said I know it's a pen and if you like I would make 7 cups with the Erebus so overdoing that kiss his eye would aid eyelet mechanics which that that there is nothing particularly special about It is a hourglass shaped piece of glass that is shaped such that it it it can wholly poorer filter and type so is basically a poor of vessel arm whatever it is about it and I don't know I do know that that hat I have the P60 I have French buses preference a little different anyway but are eight I have fancier poorer things and for whatever reason I just like the Flavour of the best and I can explain it maybe it's the big weird Square filter as I do now but whatever it is Allah the chemist that I do recommend if you get one get the glass handled one up the wooden handle on the wooden gentleman looks cool I have one it's a giant pain in the butt is very hard it ever attended optically and put it back on everything and it's hard to hold if you big ones I would say that the glass and one it's probably way more practical that being said and if I would never break they will definitely get the glass and one I would buy it anyway arm so in a it's hard to set a goal of making this is assuming this is a spigot of these methods taste different and so you your gear making different styles of coffee with them yes arm that was the error press yet in the error press by by most people's estimation test bustier and try to limit my opinion it is the best and that it is not by a small margin at this is not a subtle difference if he make it make an Erebus cup well arm it's it's quite a quite a big difference from anything else that being satellite people.allow people just treat the error press like a French press and develop boldly using a very coarse-grained the user in a 3 to 4 minute retirement your Beasley leak you busily turning into a French press and that's fine but inner that's different from what is made for an end and the way that most of us talking about and so if you like that better if you if you like a French press test better which I personally don't I find it we can to sweeten but if if you like the French press test great your arm but but if you if you like the error press test anyone a whole bunch of it (most often they can do that as far as I know are so young my solution there is just have fewer friends are dear okay only valid line that you know what arm the funny thing this is another side notices in the notes but this just our people are now in my family and my extended family are coming to know me as the coffee not arm it's I guess I was probably inevitable anyway and so arm my one of my brothers-in-law arm when now when it becomes too comes to visit with some yellow with his arm as a daughter everything in sight on my knees inside you walk in the door whatever else I say I hey how's it going you are good and I would like to make you a yes please Academy were different as descendants and I'm over there the press making a cup of coffee and is there like arm and no like a eager school kid or whatever wait for their lunch at the Hume house I yes on this at this as this is like girdling efforts if your family rate realises that you know my computers yes I guess it is easier and slower recently again come over and look at as it so suddenly people complaining when I to come and visit John because you live out in the sticks on site because I live actually in Brisbane and are suddenly people don't mind coming out here so much anymore because I like junk makers nice, coffee and white I'd never ever expected that that it's what's happening so they go anyway right arm so John may are from Devon in the UK are so John may from the UK ergo she rhymes and are in feedback form are was discussing the quality of the water lead that we used to brew coffee and indicated there was a notable difference in taste in the water between London and Devon so when he would make a cup of coffee when he is at work are in London all one is at home in Devon is that exactly taste difference arm I think we briefly touched on this the arm be honest though that the water here tastes very much the same between where I live in my work and it's because it's all connected through a water grid and you can't tell whether was coming from and I know because I helped the programming on half the water grittier so arm the thing is that some yeah it's the have you ever noticed that as being much of it the taste influence in your coffee arm I have another sit at home because we severally good water in a weekly we have at the one of the newer casinos for it also comes to Westchester so we hope that arm still I have noticed I got other places and they evenly I will I will bring my copy stuff with me somewhere rolling upstairs into apparent sizes are error of remake article and make everything exactly the way I would have made it and it will be as good are you even bring my own bins I just rested leaking up a set of everything that I have the direct grinder I have an error press I have exactly what link this exact same set of procedure Indians that would normally make myself bring it to out-of-state whether what is different arm and try to make it there and Anna doesn't doesn't work as well so of course your coffee is mostly what are like that that if there is a test to the water out especially if it's a bad taste or or a weird test you notice that and if it's a really good teacher you notice that so young annexing new DiMarco as we need to invest in a bunch of different brands of bottled water and finally like the best and then will take bottled water with us when we go away and the way we get a consistent oriented violently or quarter that bring a giant thermos and that's another option yes that is exactly alike of the vine area heavy and announce that on a single is different brands of water get home what about those unaided water okay arm guy I know just a putting milk and sugar in it the slowest FY dataset ones that I can walk your ear to step a thousand Lexus don't start a fight over okay I am I am just view I am going to make cup of coffee later this morning with less coffee in it with no milk just for you Marcus I will do that this morning that you are okay so arm the next one I love them almost at the end of the follow-up so if you're still listening show out there is a scissors which others you hope we have time to time I may not look the godless fluency we were still suing a biomechanical so arm are afraid to show our mark garment that you yes wrote about arm elephant. Coffee are now I cannot believe this because I when I first heard about the Arnaud Kobe Lou act I think it is in Indonesia I seesawed on a travel show once and is arm because it's the civet old survey of an open area pronounced arm so it eats the coffee bean and impose it out you clear out before the roughage and you're left with a copy of any grinder new charges stupid amount money for so are my God why do people do this and get it eroded an article about how much she thought was a great idea year so non-commercial services it's in their ERM in so Kobe Lou Akers in it turns out it it sounds weird because the whole process as you are you at the civet survey had hundreds you are you what you let this creature because unlike a catlike wild creature you let it get Libyans it pulls out the bins you brew the bins and there you pick me out of the loop you then brew the bins and in supposedly it's amazing and you know that that they were others got around to everyday society somehow over the last few years and at which has resulted in two problems one the easier of the two promised to address is that every person in the world always asks me once they healed him as a coffee I'll have you had that Put coffee and the answer is neither never had a guy I've never seen it for sale in a place they could just buy one cup winner you can buy it online frolic a billion-dollar powder are terrified it was worth the risk so you know if it's favourable to copy stories available for one cup for Arena Timbuktu River I'll I might try it out and bite the bigger problem is that because of another's demand for coffee Lisbon close to the civet arm there are now being bred in captivity unlike force-fed coffee beans and so it's deep that can ruin this whole thing omitted quite cruel and so now and that that either while even of a cypress and I a probable types of out of even buying a cup because only one support that arm so it's that it's not good so anyway arm is there weaving from copy lack is what I recommend arm anyway so that that that this story is there is a guy thing was in Thailand whereas in his his somewhere you somewhere are I think anyway is the is offering our elephant put coffee which is a similar idea-Swinford elephants has fermented somewhat in their stomachs and the need to put out some people got through it pick it out and brew it and he is offering it as at this whole experience where you can just buy it online philosopher at the teachings are reciting now you can but you make little experience out of it seemed so different it's IT is more mild and I think most of that is probably not the result of anything specific happening on the elephant arm I also like I question the idea he was saying he indeed had Alex and some elephant people were consulted and they said that it shouldn't be a problem for the elephant as long as Kathleen is whingeing out of the bins and I'm pretty sure Kathleen has to be champions are to some degree because that's premature decaf works are so eight I would again question you know I'm pretty sure that the bug a good portion of caffeine would be going into the elephant and that's probably not good for it never know how much the time arm either way are a there are certainly animal cruelty angle that that is that is worth questioning and investigating even even if it is being done appropriately in mineral located to the animal way are I still think it will be worth trying it just doesn't seem like people people will people fetishise copy so much and they will do anything to get something a little bit different and fancy over this in August and early with the with the obsession with fancy equipment versus the cheap equipment that is just as good as arm people people fetishise the stuff and there is money to be made and an adult think the guys are so elegant a car is in maybe he actually believes that there is a big difference unlike the difference doesn't think get it any other way arm a nitride panel apparently was motivations are his he probably enjoys that he probably thinks is doing something something really unique and and he may be but but adult adult think it's worth it in a litre there are other ways to ferment coffee beans that have been done forever that make them taste different and and seller I really wouldn't have eight again and I think this is probably just a gimmick that that we can simply not exactly and and and there is because there is the potential animal cruelty angle to it I think it's probably the best thing to ignore it don't go don't get it move along but anyhow they do so arm and discreetly about the palms of its as well arm. Evans on Twitter suggested that some true connoisseurs will roast the civet and then extracted beans and are year and night's anyway and thank you Peter it's different argue that it is different and takes cruelty to a whole new level thank you Peter for that anyway okay arm to Mongeau Aso Troy Burnett's arm by the feedback form had a few few comments are, he said the he prefers a two-stage grind honestly arm I tried it and didn't really notice any difference arm so are not sure what the advantages there the two-stage grind if you're doing a manually perhaps may be made into each individual grind might be in of itself easier but the problem is that you've gotta drive grind twice as long and I found that grinding the already pre-ground staff arm just seem to take a lot longer I'm not sure because made that that the way the power of conical birds work in the grind I'm not sure but are in any case on yeah I'd I would recommend necessarily two-stage running bus and my experiences but still our pre-wedding the filter are having as he also suggested that has no effect on Taser makes it easier to stick the filter to the Refusing inverted method and had a few people come back are say that as well on Twitter so are honestly I – she did try the inverted met anonymously make yours and is honestly are I had an incident where perhaps they are the plunger wasn't seated properly and I kinda bumped it on the coffee, when everywhere arm so that was my own fault but I also found that I made a way few times and I couldn't quite get to see properly the filter didn't quite see probably Not Sure What I Was Doing Wrong but I Just Found That I Was Going Occasional, a Coffee Ground in the Coffee When I Tiptoed up the Right Way and the Press so I Just Gone to Making It the Day I Was in the Normal Way up the Intended Way up I Guess I'm in a Knowledgeable Swear by the Inverted Method That I'd Stuck with the Benefit Is Not His Very Differently at It in Fact I Cannot Even Struggle to Pick One a Blinder Arm It with the Men the Mean Benefit the Inverted Method Gives You Is More Control over How Much What Are You Using If You Night Measuring the Model before Happens and I Don't Think the One before and I Just Brewing Apart of Water and a I Know How Much (Best Done the Amount in the Paragraphs Ready for a Plunger so Are It's Useful for That Boat Test Wise You and I Think You If You If You More Comfortable with the Regular Methodist User Agreement That Doesn't Okay Our Last Bit of Follow-Ups and That Is from Richard Howell by the Feedback Form and He Want This to Talk a Little Bit about the Differences between Coffee Style and Culture between Australia Which Has a near Total Emphasis on Espresso Milk Coffee and North America Witches Brew Coffee Far More Common Than Espresso You Notwithstanding Starbucks Are and How Those Differences Developed and I Guess I I.E. I'd Love to Talk More about That and I Guess We'll Do Our Best but I Have Nots I Lived in North America for 2 1/2 Years Fine but I Was in a Coffee Back Then and That Was 15 Years Ago so I Not Really Qualified to Compare and Contrast the Differences Also I.E. What I Can Do Though As I Can Sort of I Found Article by Yum Luke Arm More Morris and Was Post on the Aromas Coffee Page in Australian Arm Coffee Page and Arm I Guess It Is Quickly Trying to Your Brains about This Marco and Essentially If You Want Any Coffee with Foam on Top You're Almost Always Get a Spoon and It Will Come with Pre-Pre-Spring with Chocolate Powder Is That the Case in the US Thinks EU Leaders Give Us the Stupid Lemon Peel but No One Ever Knows We Want to Do a Lemon Peel Really You Had Sets and Have It Supposedly It's an Old Italian Tradition with Espresso Drinks Arm I Don't I Think When a Plasma Researcher Ethic I Wasn't Able to Actually Find Good Information but What It Definitely Was Having As People Speculate Yeah That the Furnace Is the Unvoiced Manner on Here Must Have Wondered Why Why They They Do That This the Spoon in the Coffee and the Chocolate Powder and Get That Arm That They Descended Properly As It Looks Good and You Think You Notice That the Test of One Spoon Lightly Dusted in Coffee and Chocolate Powder like If You Put That in Coffee As It's Can Be Dwarfed by the Coffee and a Shrug and Those That Are Absolutely Anyway Okay so the Next Next Next Point Was the Hanging around the Café Arm in Australia You Pretty Much My Experience Is That You Go in Your Grabber You Grab a Cuppa and You Go Ambi That's It You Don't Hang around Our Most the Café Is of Relatively Small with Very Few Seats Are There There Are Some the Larger Ones but Every Time I Go past Them during Different Times of the Day There Almost Entirely Empty and Are Unless at Lunchtime in the New You've Got Coffee Plus Plus Food or Whatever Else They That That They May Serve but Generally I Find That EA in Australia Hanging out in a Coffee Shop All Day Go like Programming Writing Whatever Else Are Café Cultural Whatever I Think Some People Call It Whatever It Is Just Not Really Much of a Thing Here but I Think It's More so in the States I Guess I Never Really Been That into Its Own from Another Representative to Ours and Are a Certainly It It Causes Trouble in the States Arm That Mostly with like If You Are the Clubs up Honour If You Copy Shop Is Full of People Who Sit There Are Laptops All Day Long and Orderly One Drink That the Canister You Are for You Is As the Only Known up All the Wi-Fi Lighter People Yelling A Lot Of People Can Make the Coffee Shop Their Office Here by That It's Geek like the Copy Shop Is Usually Not Getting Value Out Of You Making Your Office through Furtively Be Be Sustainable from Army and Throwing Arm and A Lot Of Copycats Have Tried Various Techniques Together Either Banning Laptops out Rate or Not Having Wi-Fi Admitting the Point of That Arm That Summer and I Heard of Some of Years Ago That Diggers Didn't Have Power Outlets Available Anybody As You Can Naturally Run about about the Problem Is since Then Our Laptop Battery Lives Have Gone Away up in the Last Few Years Now and Are and Cellular Data Connectivity Is As More and More Universal for People so It's Tactic Does Trigger Can Stop Working Here at but Anyway You Eight I Think You Know That If You Wanted People Who Makes a Copy of Your Office Maybe Reconsider Whether You're Really Doing Any Benefit to Them in Tolerably Religions Being Weak yet Exactly Completely Agree with That so the Last Are the Last Point on the Ridges Listed I Want to Talk about Is Our House Coffee Arm so Here by Katie North America While What I Read in This Article by Luke Mortise Was That Are in North America House Coffee Is Typically Done with a Drip Percolator and Its Chief so Much Cheaper Than Arm the Only Other Other Types of Coffee Today They Would Offer and Is That Would Mean You Get More Obviously Get More the Most the Here Straightness Is Not Done Generally There Is No Site There Is No Equivalent It's Just You Want Your Going to Get Arm and Espresso-based Coffee That's It Is Only More Expensive so It Is As Untrue As an Article Full of It Because I Never Heard of House Coffee before It Is That Delivery Has Been Copied People Serve You When You're in Your Hat When You Know How You Know What It What What the Article Suggests Is That You Go into a Café and There Is a Very Cheap Coffee As You Can Get This Just Percolated Coffee OR Arm Usually Able Usually There Is like the Regular Coffee That You Get If You Just As the Coffee Is Not Percolated That's Very It's Usually Mid an Honour on a Large Drip Machine the Large Industrial Machines Okay after I Buy and Whoever Arm Properly Prickly Copy Is Very Different and Offal Yes and and Just One Way Way Worse Than Any Method We've Talked about Everything about Broccoli Coffee Is Horrendous Is Not Wrestling Leaders the Point Is Not Freshly Ground I Write so You Write Well It Usually Was Freshly Ground When They When They Brew the Part Usually Have Giant Commercial Grinders near the Parts and When They're Ready to Make a Batch the Grain Some Dump It in the Giant Filter Basket but Thought about It in and Hit Brew and a Bruise at Another Two Gowns a Rarity in a Similar Archiving You Are and and That's Fine It's That Is It Is Not the Best You Can Get in a Manual Probable Be Better for Various Ratio Reasons but That's Not Really Leak It's Not That Much Worse It It Has More to Do with the Beans They're Choosing to Use Than the Method Areas Because Usually at a Recital Copy Shop Even Even Those House Copies of the Default Copies Even Those Are Only Maybe an Hour Old at Most If You're in the Morning a Trouble Even Younger Than That Are so I Wouldn't I Wouldn't Worry about That Cool Running Well Believe It or Not We Just Got in the Follow-Up and down with Anything Going What Is the Syllabus Are There Thanks Again Mike Wanted to Talk about Coffee and Marco Arm We Might We Might Leave It There on the Coffee�
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Marco Arment

Marco Arment

Marco writes at his site and has a podcast with friends called the Accidental Tech Podcast each week.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, software developer, podcaster, vocal actor and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John is a Chartered Professional Engineer in both Electrical Engineering and Information, Telecommunications and Electronics Engineering (ITEE) and a semi-regular conference speaker.

John has produced and appeared on many podcasts including Pragmatic and Causality and is available for hire for Vocal Acting or advertising. He has experience and interest in HMI Design, Alarm Management, Cyber-security and Root Cause Analysis.

You can find him on the Fediverse and on Twitter.