Pragmatic 50: Accidental Clicking

23 December, 2014


John Siracusa joins me to discuss RSI in depth, drawing on both of our experiences we look at what works, what doesn’t and why you should care. Keyboards, trackpads, trackballs, mice, chairs, we cover it all.

Transcript available
Welcome to pragmatic is a weekly discussions are contemplating the practical application technology exploring real-world trade also look at how great ideas are transformed into products and services that can change allies nothing is as simple as it seems that are sponsored by igloo and Internet you'll actually like that with easy-to-use apps like filesharing blogs calendars task management and more visit English software or one to get started is free to use for up to 10 people as observers also sponsored by then, is easy and affordable way to learn we can instantly stream thousands of courses created by experts in their fields of business software web development graphic design and lots more as a LY to get a free 10 day trial if you ever want to learn something new what are you waiting for little about them is more during the show on your host John CG and my guest host for this the 50th episode of pragmatic is very special not only do we have a few odd things in common like an eye for detail and speaking of eyes horrible eyesight are my contacts in LR -4.2 5X that's the conversation stigmatism apparently anyway okay so both are of our first computers of the 20 are neither wrists are excited about air travel for similar reasons and sizeable ghettos originally became Internet popular I suppose you could say through his writing asked technical writing are brief commentaries on OS X releases and more recently for a podcast called hypercritical which had 98 actual episodes but ended are currently his host of a pop of the popular accidental tech podcast with Mark Eyman and Casey was I am of course referring to John Syracuse and thank you John for coming show and realises episode 50 is examining introducing a podcast now though no number to start it with you we stopped and I Was only stopped at 100 are technically was really any 98 because one was a public service announcement and one end and have you want so the same episode number in the RSS feeds is 100 hundred dollars matters at now suppose so but I go back and forth and is of numbers mean anything is, like an age of enemy cycles around the sun to be done in system arbitrary measure of something but it arm unknown stopping out and you right lovely okay so am I thought it would be wonderful to get you on our to talk about something that we both experience and I think you've been through a tough time and I have and that's our repetitive strain injury ORS I for short but before you get stuck into that how much did you love than the 20 because I love mine I miss mine sometimes my memories are over 20 are very vague having the only concrete memory I really have that is there is pressing the keys that made blocks of colour on the screen gives every like Meg Gallagher I cobble yellow critter shape signal yell yell yell and Aaron in advance of being married to have them in Kaiser and rating basic programs are just memorising an asset and like the shape of the thing the colour of being what it felt like where was the living room in relation to the DV that's about it I was young while i.e. I was going to but I play with it for you for years on and off until we got AII hates a real computer because it was and it was a PC running Dos but never mind that I am yet it was it's what I had so there goes the victory noted memory I had was that the silly expansion slot in the back are which had a more like an edge connector PCB our connection into a so is very rough around the edges shall we say and we had a game on a cartridge called race around the block and we had a memory expansion card which you needed to play other serpents and other things so because they are one slot in my memory was inserting and removing those cards was physically difficult and didn't always work reliably so you put in a wooden loan you have to remove it and try and clean the contacts and put it back in again and was was one of my Mobic 20 was a rental we didn't own it was rented from a family wow can monitor their article plunges when I was made by a computer at that point as it was rental and serious is back in the days and you plug a strand of the TV set because as long as one thing well I don't think I was similar to arm I think that the home silly nothing for a family is renting a victory no true what ego so arm RSI and one of the funny things in doing the practice episode I found myself involuntarily shaking out my right hand are I'm getting our phantom RSI pains and I know their phantom RSI pains but I'm still getting them it's as I don't think the white elephant right what you think that that's part of the whole thing with repetitive strain injury is thinking about your body parts as part of part of dealing with exacting so that thing is arm there say the New Jersey Department of Health and senior services which sounds like it's bold people but were not old so anyway arm anyway their public employees Occupational Health & Safety program defines RSI as an injury to the musculoskeletal or nerve and nervous systems that may be caused by repetitive tasks forceful exertions vibrations mechanical compression or sustained or awkward positions which is long winded but Pringle covers all arms but specifically not the hands are only the hands which is now a common thing that everyone in our line of work is mostly concerned that RSIs relates to hands and arms and sign it obviously can apply to any part of the body so without his first identify the 1700s by an Italian guy by the name of Bernardino Ramm Mars runners any sound Italian arm and I described RSI more than 920 different categories of industrial workers in Italy including positions and are and do desk works but couple tunnel syndrome is a specific sub category within RSI was first identified by British surgeon James Paget in 1850 forces is not a new thing but the first recorded mass incidence of RSI was actually in 1912 in America with our telegraphs cramp from the poor telegraph operator sending Morse code all they long and I can completely understand that since I've learnt Morse code and fortunately not unsettled a long because it was just too slow and tedious and talking a lot quicker as was only things that I didn't understand about amateur radio because it's like you talking Morse code Michael I can talk to you verbally by what I choose an inferior method of medication the RSA is is basically meaningless but it caused meaningless because it is and as such is an umbrella term and as such a huge umbrella cover is anything like it that the definition is so incredibly bright the only reason has to be there as big as you like I have injured myself by doing the same thing over and over again and that cover is such a wide spectrum in our when you say you suffer from RSIs on was like you know I am I am suffered from recovering from bacteria or cycles are pretty broad categories a lot of viruses loaded on bacteria they are of varying severity to our you now are what degree do you are how long ago taken the graticule you was just to be the sniffles in exactly so are you exactly and an RSIs one of those as you say an umbrella term that sort of covers so many different types of injuries so what I do is some are in a little bit of a break out some of the the classified subtypes but the year there's taxi quite a lot more to it but just to try and keep this down and focused our I just want to specifically talk about the RSI injuries that would be sustained in computer intensive jobs because while a that's both of our lines of work and be a lot of the listeners to the shows lines of work at a lot of possessives that point is that I think it's problem most of most interest so will just focus on those but that the bottom line I guess against the bottom line the beginning but you lots of bad habits will lead to damage in muscle much less time whereas very few bad habits will prevent injury for a significant long period of time but it but you can't actually there is no set of rules you can follow the guarantee will never get RSI and is the thing that happens are you using a keyboard you can use an economic mouse or user Devorah layout of all things and and you won't get RSI but assist that's just not true the less than thick motion sickness not as it is another car in a very similar power parallel to that are some people get motion sick like all the time I'm one of those people and I am going mostly it's a great other people I would I don't get much the same flight but is not the case that everybody gets motions is just a question of what it takes some people it would take going up you know into a jet fighter plane which some people are never going to do rates you find the best living is that a longer modernism is presently true for email for any reasonable definition is idyllic and you something incredibly extreme to to my bided to make me at second Besley document is a current industry injuries like that too is that I do get some people through genetics or whatever any normal activity you do there fine but anybody can be made through a buy mingled around and anybody can be made into repetitive strain injury by doing some very awkward thing over and over again it's just a question of how much it takes and so is really is a continuum arm and that's why you until you know where you are on a continuum you should never say I have nothing to worry but I don't get motion sick on the new inner guide underground board and then an Icelandic and you know they like I said it's here's my threshold rates repetitive strain injury you aren't the only way you know what what will cause you to get entry is by getting injured so you should be like I never had from before and I'm doing this my whole life especially when you're younger getting everybody is growing and eventually you will start growing your become an adult and you'll become more susceptible to injury because of either because mimicking you now repairing itself like you did when you were 11 years old so are you some people are lucky enough that that Noel normal computer using activity will probably affect them but you can offer to you until you get injured briskly you when you're younger than any older people say you and the old one day Sonny wasn't like that of an obscenity when you're a kid I wish more people had told me 90 RSI for so many of the computer because it would run my brain they did occasionally mention pasture but nobody said stop typing using the mouse because you just a string of it was another thing that people knew about when I was a kid and I use the computer like crazy with terrible ergonomics remained heartfelt and I was fine art because when you get your last things and be deciding right now you bounce back and really great when you get older anything slows down and it's not quite so yah the glory days are over kind of thing but an economic especially historically be relied within renewal of the Victoria restart when you're young and you spend Besley your entire life that you can remember using computers much as much as you want are you like wildly somewhat of those lucky people for normal activity does not cause injury to look at me I spent my entire life playing videogames though. And I'm just fine art and this the wrong thing to think because you not you can be finally get the RSA hit me when I was in my mid-20s are an up until that point I believe you can use the commuter planning and is like a dozen respondent was lucky before doesn't have that the things that they see my ass you exactly am I in my case I didn't start having trouble RSI until only a year ago so although admittedly go now that I felt what it feels like a little thinking back actually started earlier than that that is one of those things that you choose to ignore or you can't's as I can't plug into someone else's brain who's had a certain kind of injury so I know had an injury feels so until I learn how the injury feels I can't actually annunciate anybody that is actually what I'm feeling is that injury and until we become the ball, suggesting Miceli should that either if we did then that would make that certain diagnosis a lot easier I guess but now this is a big thing are people who like you until you have passed the point of serious injury really cook something is seriously wrong for months or years leading up to the point those people and myself have been suffering from symptoms and then basically totally unaware of them ignoring them not associating with earning thinking I'm just tired whatever our and you know it's ideas into Shake it off as I go wild when I relate I felt little is definitely getting to think about it you just like a good bad boy there was a tiring day of computing you wake up you find the next morning you just keep going just don't think about it as soon as you know you something you do get injured seriously in the other flareup all of a sudden you pick if you're minimal eventually become hyper aware of every part of every part of your body that is connected to the primary body that is injured and you realise you confuse keeping up-to-date again like you become aware of things you are well before you started backing up ourselves how was I so oblivious to the signals my body was sending me for this from this incredible amount of time that I didn't even notice this is almost it's almost insane looking back when you think about aft after its aft eventually been injured but you felt that injury exists it is it is strange but is icing's arm so okay now you have spoken about this on episode of hypercritical is absent was six and it was between 50 minutes and 30 seconds and one hour in six minutes are which is a sum total of around about time 15 minutes and 30 seconds is roughly so are feel free it's a doubling shyster go havoc with was that if you like but there's a lot of stuff in there a lot of stuff about RSI that arm that you didn't discuss some of the other Mecca nations I really want to sort of dive into that a bit that some before I start too far down this track I guess I'm curious what age did you do you consider that you learned how to touch type of disorder you can buy some I've heard you cancel a touch type maybe you can now and I don't have correctly I took typing classes from now very young age singledigit age of those chiropractors are but apparently all you want have computers you can organise tape because typing is one of the things you have to learn how doing computer as I learn to type on like any of the IBM's electrical while they brighter daily things mariners gonna our annual taping of the fibreglass is that all things were still fingers and the honk is a whatever but like I just suffered devastating glasses on ahead of them and I didn't actually learn anything instead what I continued to do when I was out of that class was whatever I felt like and I do to this day I taped entirely incorrectly with my fingers in all the wrong key is only using Robbie like that occasionally may think you modify my thumbs of the and my first two fingers and the like every summary tablets are bugged by minors I can table staring at the screen most of the time I can program steering industry mosses I was involved in acrylic dresses and princes a whatever I don't have to look down on my hands and I've been like that for years but I'm not doing it the correct case we see took less I never learn to touch type the railway but we see took lessons in like an actual classroom environment with wanted yes actual classroom with a teacher now like it not just one of many classes many taping glasses over many years and just I was a very stubborn child and do the exercises you know are just never never again I just did what I did to get through the class and went back to you know how I will use the computer which was different was it what I want my expenses I started out with a typing tutor program not on the 20 of identity when I imagine how bad I was in the Victoria was wooden hunting and packing that is as you save memories of that age a bit fuzzy but that one of the PC assignment typing tutor program which go I thought I was doing okay but then when I got to high school are grey so was limiting 1/8 eighth and ninth grade I actually did take our typing classes but old school classes and the weird thing for me was learning just how bad I was wondering when I can offer are done typing tutor on my computer on pom-pom pretty fast and pretty good and that's when you learn okay you're topping a typewriter you've gotta have a correcting euro correcting to take on some of them and when will I start the first six months either she learning on manual typewriters and because we hadn't that I had got rid of all the manual typewriters my first started learning it and so we were sitting alone on those and a course that is a correcting tape so you don't Wanna make a mistaking access got a greater than 95% 98% and arm it was it was weird for me and it was also cool because I was one of three guys arm in the entire grade typing arm they might but it was star I learnt how to type relatively well but my biggest arm failing is my index fingers keep crossing the imaginary line arm where my teachers often threatened to put a physical divider between the keys as they did for some problem students to stop their fingers from wandering arm bits are so far as looking at a document and then typing it out it's I have this thing where I can do amount 5060 words a minute of my glance away from time to time is like that I can trust myself it's do not look away from the keys and I can so get an extra 2030 words a minute because at that looking away really slow down so I Yum but I do okay but I do as much programming as as I used to most the program I do do is not's are is more graphical based as in your home it's plc programming packages these days are all objects are Dragon object to link this up a small mouse driven that it is keyboard driven and I've done too much of that recently do some scripting stuff they spend most of my computing time using the master logo is what typing was so disconnected that I was using a commandline assembly iMac imaginary forums by using the mouse and there is a modifier guess it was not a lot of taping event that tax adventure again is limited and thinking in reading and a little bit of time typing so blaming the Maxima not having a commandline interface initially now I do I compute computing from it was not about taping because I didn't really start programming in essence I was in college to clean relevant intolerance of using a computer and using a mouse and I'm really good with mouse are not suitable taping you I sort of the nicer enough of RIST I was Irene Australia spent much time I buy I found the mouse to be a bit odd in the early days but Argus agrees to a number convert now lilac trackpad that's another story will get that anyway arm right so arm two broad categories of RSI are musculoskeletal disorders and diffuse RSI cases so musculoskeletal disorders. Some of them and some of what what the conditions are so arm first one is our bursitis are bursaries a sack containing fluid and that allows the two services to move our joints without fruit without much friction are in separate directions but it's so most often located past the body where muscles and tendons glide over joints like knees and shoulders our bursitis is therefore obviously information of that psychosis caused by continual friction of the bursar/1 specific one that is when I next time Nadia had pronounced exactly I looked for a pronunciation but someone's name arm Dick and Dick Williams or Dick were veins syndrome are also referred to as mothers wrist or and washroom washerwoman sprain which you looking from this point history backwards this sounds very sexist but irrespective our information of the tunnel that encapsulates the two tendons that moderate the movement of the thumb is actually separate tendons drive the ER are the fingers versus the lead the thumb in the pinkie as well I think from memory are so sufferers have a tender and swollen thumb and that affects your ability to actually grip objects which is doesn't sound particularly pleasant are next on the list is our goal is to listen to and do pertinent to patrons contracture which is the inability to fully straighten your fingers into an open flat palm arm usually the ring and the little finger are affected the most caused by emulation of scar tissue underneath the skin at the base of the finger where it meets the palm and the tissue thickens and shortens overtime eventually the tendons loose free movement and are in serious cases fingers can't be strained at all obvious that's can be a bit problematic arm dystonia more commonly referred to as writers cramp access one of you have had writers cramp and no I felt my hand in pain elaborating longhand but that's a long time ago I don't rate for the Panadol pencil any more at all you are the same thing when I was a uni arm I would go through are you you must either day of lectures like six hours of lectures and was all handwritten notes overhead slides blackboard sorry our chalkboards or MySpace in the last year they started retrofitting whiteboards like the AI's new fandango stuff that is and is ice to write pages and pages and pages of notes and my lecture notes are books and arm i.e. at the end of the day's my hand was so cramping up was so sore the finding is now recently filed a try that I would get maybe 1/4 page down and I'd be my hand be cramping as I hardly write anything anymore who knows who is working order for exactly exactly same IT arose crap in voluntary muscle spasms in voluntary hand tremors and twisting movements by the fingers and sometimes even other parts of the body are affected but that the tension hand and the arm are can cause an unnecessarily strong grip on your writing implement most likely a pen I suppose it's our oddly really prevalent amongst writers and strange but also seen in musicians and office workers so games gives some also knows trigger thumb or scarce numbers caused by strain of the ulnar collateral ligament causes swelling and pain specifically to the thumb are going Leon's are from one of these once assist forms when tissue surrounding various finger and wrist joints become inflamed and a solid fluid is usually painless but it causes some discomfort as a sister sort of on the way into strictly joint and you physically bump it a guess how servers are consistent can sting quite a bit and again is an increase in size over time but they usually disappear of their own accord given enough time but the mechanisms that cause ganglion is the same and that I generally thought can to contribute to rheumatoid arthritis so the development of ganglion's could be a predictor of future arthritis yards more causal link than anything but anyway okay renounce disease blood supply to the bodily extremity is interrupted or inconsistent usually due to damage from to the nerve endings and its associated with prolonged use of vibrating machinery are it sometimes can be preceded by an infection is caused by the low blood flow are all working in cold conditions not much of a problem where I live but perhaps not a problem in your neck of the woods but it usually affects the fingers and fingers can become so blue or white arm the blood due to the blood vessel constriction and weight can range from like a tingling sensation like pins and needles to being very painful in some cases have been reported where gangrene sets inexorable but anyway definitely not having had that on okay a few more tendinitis is an umbrella term for the swelling of the tendons in the body are from overuse causing tears in attendance and a number of more specific RSI conditions are grouped under tendinitis as a category such as carpal tunnel syndrome or epicondylitis which is an excellent base referred to more commonly as golfers elbow or tennis elbow and fixing oddly the elbow and I causal information attendance to connect the bone exacerbated by the repeated strain the forearm muscles that extend down to the arms wrist and fingers and everything they make the extension twisting the arms biggest contributor so small, among sportspeople so so I focus on on the computing injuries I should keep moving cubital tunnel syndrome caused when the ulnar nerve is pinched along the elbow's edge and this compression causes the tingling painful feeling are in the fingers generally affects the ring finger and the little fingers so are finally the big one which is the one everyone goes on about carpal tunnel syndrome and as the median nerve which runs from the forearm to the palm of the hand and it becomes our compressed or squeezed at the wrist and affects the first three fingers primarily now the thing about this is it and some of these is it the most commonly genetic predispositions so as a narrowing of the tunnel and its three times more common in jobs requiring assembly over data entry or keyboard related jobs which is only thinks I am working on a computer all day and I've got RSI from carpal tunnel syndrome and is just not true the other thing it's interesting and I didn't realise in Austin rings research for this topic is that women are actually three times more likely to develop this than men are for some reason it is interesting anyway so the results it's a result of a combination of factors that increases pressure on the median nerve and the tendons in the carpal tunnel is not active from the nerve itself can be can be caused by trauma or injury to the wrist direct every overactivity of the pituitary gland hyperthyroidism rheumatoid arthritis of course mechanical from the wrist joint arm repeated work stress repeated use of vibrating hand tools and fluid retention during pregnancy or menopause and on that topic my wife actually was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrome when she was pregnant with our fourth child and it was quite extreme she had to wear a wrist splint every night for months starting in one wrist was prevalent in the left and then are in the last month of pregnancy you won't want both hands so is pretty severe and smiles at this point that I'm curious arm what you were diagnosed with was at any of those is actually difficult getting any sort of side diagnosis repetitive strain injury because you undergone united with a series of late vague symptoms are and have x-ray vision they can tell exactly what is going on in your body and most the time you have a little bit of some of this soul are tendinitis was that the diagnosis that most readily be given are the only thing you can do our for the more exotic ones as a rule out things like a lot of functions believes a couple tunnel is actually very rare are just in general are rare and repetitive strain injury and there are specific in our motions with the resident as the you can see if you have carpal tunnel this will hurt like hell and if it doesn't then you don't have that is really easy to eliminate those with only left with a cycle of certain matters and originators and and the difficulty is that I well you properly have some mild tendinitis and maybe have this movie have added that the most exciting thing I think about diagnosis is that very often where you're feeling the pain is not where the injury as it is mentioned which were fair which one was like a cubital tunnel or something with it like something unnerving elbow would you feel it in your in your pinky and ring finger you are and that one way back when our loss of tank number numbers are tingling and you begin ring finger but the injury is not your finger or your hand it's farther up in and out but is it the whole series like this cold thoracic outlet syndrome relic of the of the nerves and stuff to go through Besley shoulder are that if you have bad pasture and you are hunched over there and everything is pinched up in your shoulders you will feel it lower down on your wrists and you and your hands the problem is that there are problems in your shoulders about stretching out your shoulders and doing the exercises elaborate predeparture something your hands feel better I might I've had a menagerie of these things and so it is not like if they they can tell you you have a good day I can Eigen you know did fantastic voyage of antibody into existing precise tendon is inflamed as I visited I will now have a specific belfry or something like that is almost never going to be my couple tunnel is there a surgical procedure is to help fix labs I could we not is exactly the problem we can go in there and open this up and make a little bit better but it is have sort of you know tendinitis and a bunch of party but Israel pinched up squeezing on your nerves and tendons are there is no one thing you can do it facets of the my diagnoses relate mild tendinitis hour and some nerve constriction causing no blood logs regional constriction and limited motion from a muscle shortening up an inner the works but now there is you never knew you was never going to get a very precise diagnosis that you know exactly needed for so is a Catholic whole-body solution absolutely right and I will get that done Mr settlement ergonomic shortly so are before you go any further like to talk about our Arthur sponsor the episode and answer igloo software now in engineering I've worked in a lot of companies that use a missed mishmash collection of different tools to provide the basic functionality you need to get work done things like filesharing wikis announcement pages in department landing pages are disconnected disorganised that they only ever seen working in Explorer 7 and on your company provided desktop igloo is an intranet you're actually like they bring the ease-of-use from consumer software into your corporate environment by using familiar apps like shared calendar would like microblog is filesharing and lots more everything can be social with comments and like buttons and anyone can 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okay so the next thing to talk about is the other categories the two categories of our site and the other one is diffuse RSI and this is the one I hate this but this is just a reality and the reality is that every categorisation system out there pretty much seems have a category called general and I feed episode seven of this podcast of that title inevitably as medical sciences knowledge increases on any kind of disorder specific subtypes are classified named individually diagnosable and they can have more specific treatments in some cases ultimately there is an umbrella term that is left over for those that they haven't reached that point yet and that's what diffuse RSI is the want of a better description is that we don't know what it is yet diagnosis so year and is what I got okay arm so ergonomics do you consider that you are having ergonomic set up John Brearley is better than a wires as there is definitely a dividing line in his review using computers before I had promised to resign after my before a set of syringes universally for my after setups are reasonable but I don't have a special keyboard I do have a special economic mouse are there as I'm using just stark equipment I just haven't better positioned so that better position for advice on a libraries and slowly monitored in the risen moderator have an Iraqi programming because it's a terrible typist and I can I can type it all under ergonomics "I bet they would properly help enabling you to crossing the line I don't I'd if I try to give Robert all across the gigantic gap and I get it's terrible like Siam and maybe I would I ride I just never I just never got past the barrier of triangles they would probably help me a little bit as probable ergonomic mouse but old dog new tricks now while will will will will talk about those in the minute I should use to have arm a Microsoft natural keyboard which is supposedly ergonomic and I have examined a problem where are my my thing would go across the other side and my fingers and start to like bump into each other because I was I was crossing the line and we really slowed me down until is that the number six was on the wrong side and I say I say the wrong side Summerwood says the right side and so we draw the visible line anyway so are let let's go start somewhere so start with the desk in the foot rest so just run through the ergonomics did the good ideas that not so good ideas so decide desk and foot rest so of the underfoot resolution feet slightly so that you can maintain a right angle of your knees arm if you got the correct desk height and the desk height should be adjustable to ensure your arms are 90° when your chair is correctly positioned and is no I say the desk I should be adjustable up until recently in fact every company that I've worked for until I'm currently working for none of their desks were height adjustable are did your company height adjustable desks their older placed in a red standing to assert all the region the other understanding casserole side adjustable beginning of the goal of standing position with Elsa go down to lower positions but it is the first company that I've worked out within this this has been a trend that is of a long time coming and now finally I just why desks are but before that when you do have usually is adjustable hate chair is management foot rest comes in because you can move your chair to the radiator and then if your legs dangling the elephant rusted rate of disorder complete the picture while giving your desk I'd painted suspects that exactly and I think it's great that the dishonour height adjustable business my things that led to my problem was having a desk that was way too high so one so you adjusting your desk height is important should take the time to do another pain the neck a lot of them mean that the motorised ones electric motorised ones you see no Swansea pushbutton up-and-down nights will be able work cheers you're lucky now we've got the ones of got the pin in them so depend on their site sharply about a dozen presets are height selectable holes on each of the year while on the desk is actually AAU shapes our piece of metal so you you take the pain out of one-sided concepts it sort of connected so you slide to a one simple opinion the front in the back Isabella Painter set up because someone has lifted while you adjust the pin height that we another super flash once you've got barbaric your unit electric ones Denise Alpert actually have one regrettably there are a lot of people around me to a one likely hoping to get one when I move my desk in the coming year but are you getting a window view slide wider programs we never get the window see it on his happiness cubicle no house music all by the window I rather just have an office with it either causes now is fair enough why is it companies are going to a more open plan to I mean that's why partitions it is and is not that the partitions was money all they do is that you can pack more people into a smaller space that orders here behind a partition seems to be getting lower though I was figured noticed I'd like to know that if there been any decent state topic for another episode may be an and see what is actually a difference between a in terms of productivity from having a cubicle cubicle eyes culture or having a semi-open office the rest of the story made recently I wrote open risk close off as younger as all people in a road while treading a blink density after an interesting because I you because I design knows this trend and it just irritates a headcount because i.e. I started out when I was working are in North America was figured Nortel and Calgary and they had cubicles that were free 5 foot may be fine half foot tall so you know are you using your desk you saw nothing of the outside anything simple crack the door while the doorway was more of a an open area which could walk through but Saddam Gallas and Blakesley got those xylophone-you know like a stretchy door that folds up I know what is it think I'd know that chronological accordion yes I can accordingly yes like an accordion door that is either technically called either the medical instrument that folds up that said I was wrong with as an accordion door and no women okay and I am getting sidetracked here right so are right so that any action standing desks and I do have a look into that so are standing desks should be a height where your arms or 9° when you're standing and you but the thing stand SO isn't there a bit of a mixed bag because there is no lumbar support obviously just standing and in a union need to correct your own posture but some people report that they have better posture when standing a standing desks and if they were sitting despite the fact there is no lumbar support so that the interesting thing is though if you look at your reaching envelope and as to say you know I can lean over and reach much further when I'm in a standing position that I can have a sitting position and to say I've got wheels in my chair I can roll my chair across and so on so forth but now some carpets that you will sit on the ode that that the wheels are sitting on may not done Matt may have an annoying coefficient of friction take a lot of energy to actually move across the tended to lean further and it's bad ergonomically so there is no question that you reach envelope is is larger when you're standing and there's therefore less energy required to fetch referred other nearby information we are standing rather than sitting but there is more energy required to stand than to sit and is allcomers I've worked I will not give you a standing desk arm are displayed they want you you can ask for a but they were given to you maybe that's different I may be made of singers that sat like he says a long time coming North America Mavis it's coming here but these desks I go swim out the height adjustable bidet not you coming standing desks so mixed bag with standing desks are not totally sold on ergonomically there is no there is no real significant conclusive proof that standing is necessarily better and certainly better for some tasks than others but that's about as far as I go little studies say that the maritime usage per day is correlated with IQ helps a new diagonal desire quizzes in other night it's just business correlations but there are yes strong correlations and you people get freaked out about themselves by ethically standing desks repairing you I agree absolutely and it's an extremely incorrect conclusion from from the data and that's that that's it that's a trap that honestly are you will get the conclusions towards the end but honestly it is just getting up and moving around from time to time is probably just as good so right chair are well administered as the thing that that really annoys me is that he was able I've got an expensive ergonomic chair is like well okay a well-adjusted sheep chair is better than a badly adjusted expensive chair so you know I just shrug my shoulders because people sailed on a chair therefrom fine and I said some people it is that unjust either they don't know how just a properly properly all the company hasn't taken the time to elicit like ergonomically we had ergonomic specialist working at our company I worked at previously and within thing was the third day that I was working at the company they would come round to an ergonomic assessment of your workstation and setting up properly for you and I'm to be referred to them as the hour ergonomic Nazi because if they came round found that you are sitting not ergonomically there was like going invisible strike against you and they would like give you a really evil glances they were passed in the corridor but do you have a ergonomic specialist we went we don't I can wish we did but in hearing about. There are coming by giving very like they would probably grab me very poorly in my past I would like to have my things like that I try to adjust everything you just message myself I'd I like the chair of the worker picked out of out of the many different models and chairs are available over the years made in my office I picked the one that I like the best adjusted for myself it's reasonably good but I said in it like a lazy bum out of the slush is bad I realise it as it is clearly the event I am not even that wasn't what we have in our office a lot of like actual financial furniture actually has laptop so a lot of people spend all day and another do that because the young people sitting on a couch or a lake in my gay beanbag chair or an alumnus easily actual squishy furniture with the laptop and I would looks comfy but then it is latest not yet smart that's not the best I do anyway I am I am in my regular office chair either in the chest of the most important thing I think is hate are you diggers generate influences it influences the inner the angle your arms again about everything you if you get just a part rate then a worst case you can do and I have a bunch of those big exercise balls to when we others in the worst-case it is just the right height than just illustrate don't have anything touching a bag of substrate with the pastor at work and you'll be okay. It's like sitting on a Bodleian others nothing on your back there is no maximum denied or about the backroads just register flat surface. We sitting on our that's at the right height for you are about have to bail so you were writing recent mentioned and you just did about the angle of your arms being at 90° and the angle between your thighs and your back being 90° risks held straight and in line with the forearms and a lot of that comes back to the height of the chair and down in terms of distance maximiser as well that 18 to 24 inches arm back from the monitor and down you think I'd be Queen a metric that might anyway so Adia chairs so is as you set a minimum absolutely need to be height adjustable gas lift is the most common these days I remembered that I used to have an old screw lift chair as the hate that no one is underneath we had a stern that the stamps cruising around 100 times to get to the gas lift is the nicest girl has a nice cushioning sort of effect that the downside is that a lot of people using gas lift chair and the finance of sinking during the day and there's a leak you just get replaced you know so to the right height stays the right height everyone is happy but anyway arm the lumbar adjustment can help to keep your back straight to prevent that lower back pain and slouching but it's really there is a preventive measure as you said you really shouldn't be touching it but it's there to stop you from it's like the warning in a corpse you shouldn't be you shouldn't be slashing what so it's handy to have a I found fine having a tilt on the seat can help the angle of your leg sometimes are because some chairs at this stage seems to be a funny angle and are not sure how describe funny angle but in order get that 90° right I found that the seatbelt only adjusted like firewood for the disciples -5° from whatever that becomes came as factory default factory default seat I guess I assembled it in my point is that artsy telephone also helps but the funny thing is that for a while there I was reading a lot ergonomic slicing armrests were helpful ergonomically and I don't are digging into this and I found is not necessarily the case are desirous but wrist rests yesterday remember when people I go couple totals are being everybody in his gel wrist rest is that in front of your keyboard you should now have your rest touching anything while you're taping exactly another wrist rest not only Bingenheimer as I have the arms I unscrewed the arms from major work at my cholesterol I don't I don't think you've never arresting things is just more it's just putting more pressure and of little flashy things that are going down which runs from your shoulder to your arm to arrest and I don't want any of that being compressed oppressed in any way and sometimes it hinders your emotion because you can have your arms and out of positions are trying to avoid the armrests of whatever interest know I want them done every watch over Brad I have removed the armrests from the exactly and I actually win my early career I bought into some of that and I remembered saying old revision of armrests and then an older I got the more I realise that there actually a pain in the neck and then I found read a few studies that armrests don't actually add any value at all ergonomically all immeasurable amount of value so I now feel dirty of course having 19 years ago once advocated armrests but no doubt did and they can stop you from getting your chair in the position because depending on where you are a desiccator sometimes the I'm responding to the desks of the armrests are above adjustable lowered aspirate emitters can camp on the chair enough for a lake and sometimes that the armrests bump into listen to sit on it and I get pressed down unavoidably in gassing manual and respond recently Cape Cod and the dusk interest interest in the way of you getting everything in the correct position I do understand why the answer is it's because people dislike their want them but I if if your arms are small enough to fit inside the armrests then no harm done is not a big deal you are resting your arms and wrists Russell was the worst because you see them everywhere they take up room and people actually restaurants son and not only does Ms resting your wristband because you began repressing as a residence questioning everything up a narrow you do not want to stop the singer is to be squished up as it slides back and forth are you doing it open but resting arrestor means your arms under a position you tilting your busy talking upon the environment and also in that you do not want to put to rest in any sort of non-neutral position and then wiggle your fingers repeatedly older you want the rest to be as neutral as possible your discount alike as there would be Discover flopping at your side that is that is probably usual rate anything you do to change that position including resting US manufacturers in the keyboards that tilt upwards and arrestor and arrest rest terrible bad tonight but you're a sonorous rust absolutely right and justice on a side note that the suggestion now is the time Ironman has the Mensa causes and our bad posture potentially rolling does all things in the palm Sandino election should stuff out of the marina respect and end up like that you assist could I still my suits though but anyway is some repetitive interest of a couple times is now so I get thousands of times they drink you structure your rest are in a position now that's true I can actually have wrist rest sound I'm glad you brought that up because it was an oversight on my part but that your iPod never used okay I do which I actually did sit at a desk once that had a wrist rest I used it for about 60 seconds and then I got rid of it because I just you try to avoid compression in that area some why you compressing it against it please explain it and it's putting things wrong doesn't even have them for the mousey receivers like Gallagher are harassing sheep one is not the public at the bottom of your mouth and in resting rest and that why you wiggle the mouse around the building to a mousepad sometimes the only good thing that one day a mouse might do is avoiding that rest rest might help you put to rest in a better position because again people use is mouse the lake leave their arm against the side of the table near your hand is lifting up to get to the mouse and your moving around clicking the button it's better of you left your entire arm positive as I was floating then and your hand goes down onto the mouse I have my wrist rest so that I can avoid touching it at that of someone exists you need to rename it wrist rest avoid whatever the worst okay so just don't want to wrap up a minor armrests arm is devastated by Cornell University and show that there is no significant improvement to wrist posture as a result of having armrests on the chair so it is a Lincoln a shunt of you and pour over the findings as an actual genuine study when they actually did try to study it impartially so eager okay trackpad versus mouse they love trackpad is correct I do not a head on while you are on sorry I knew didn't like them and screaming at me I'm sorry but some have used up its only way to my trackpad under the many do around exam and I am not sure however were there Alex for the contract as it just because I am somewhat less efficient if a feeling it as it is an impairment from me to have to use trackpad are that use a mouse because the meat is that the more experience you must let us think the mouse is more is a better proxy for appointing something is going with my finger in the trackpad as the trackpad it smilingly shopping around a rock and a little Japanese garden for sand soaking up but English over there I like the cursor is a thing and isolate my little finger around on everyone's a while as a moving and the trackpad can engage the caress of the negative pickup and I was exhilaration Kerr readily built the few were muscle groups that are involved immediately my finger and a few screen Jerry whereas Bonnie is a mouse I got my my arm my shoulder and arrest my finger is every part of that entire system depending on what kind of mood making Faust sure only nine combinations lecturing a baseball everybody arm shoulder elbow wrist fingers are all involved the different points to get that one big motion to get the ball going first one I flicked the mouse to do the current screaming amusing OR maybe I'm just using my fingers maybe I'm using that my palms leveraging flicking with my fingertips again nothing to do with open arms just to do with a deficiency arm all the things I do the mouse are probably terribly terribly ergonomically but they're incredibly efficient and in-house Ides if it is what I'm used in the trackpad I just got a feeling, sufficient and because of my sufficient if you get I get stressed lake in its stress hormones are released because I can already get that like my wrist underwritten sympathy when I think about having to use a laptop just dinner with the trackpad in front of me just a tape subtitling goalless wave swipe and then I would like hold down the trackpad with like my thumb in another doll in Bunbury they hold down then swipe with the other finger and that is the tension of that is somewhat greater than the tension admitted having a mouse holding out about you just drag when everyone was the other you do allow the trackpad feels worse to me I'm not using trackpad wrong or that the stress about it is because I'm a sufficient I'm getting frustrated that I'm able to do things for us as I can think of them in our bad attract as do no work from Yemeni levels what is on a couple those points there that she made i.e. I agree with some of what he said because pressing down and the problem is it's the OE it's it's turning moment affects the amount of force that you have to apply so the further way your finger is or rather hang on me since I ran because the actuation point is at the further it is firstly streaming from the pivot point on a pivot point being the ER though edge of the map trackpad is furthest away from you are it's much much easier in terms of the amount of force required to push down are the actuators are at the end it's closest to you on the trackpad and that's okay I get that fine but the problem is that that means that if only use the minimum amount of energy to push down the trackpad I have to then draw my thinkers down to the centre trackpad it's closest to me before I clicked them which means I have to expend more energy in moving my fingers down to that point before I can actually click whereas I mouse my fingers always in the tree finger and it requires the same amount of force irrespective of the position of the finger on the mouse mouse button pretty much so that also you have to spread your if you want to go to the bottom edge of the trackpad which now when the drug is all unbuttoned by a slick user but used the likely actual button was down there your finger happens to be the tarp now the distance finger thumb and whatever point from using is increased and now try to hold down way over there but then also precisely move your finger way up there as against doping opening your hand up into it a 900 dry natural position and trying to do precise movements with their arm with your fingers extended in that way you get is only right and I and I guess I never got the hang of using my thumb as the on the on the button by dishonest didn't because I didn't start using trackpad seriously until arm the multitouch trackpad's which didn't have the button at the bottom so you but the other thing that's that idea to overcome these problems is i.e. a statically cartoon on I got system preferences article as you say elegant tablet what the alternative DeLorean back alternative trackpad is The click where everything gets softer are and in ulcerative you don't have to do it you use as much muscle forced to do things for your trading is now you have to reciprocate because now it's like any kind of email lists in our finger happens to drop down and will like you can actually click things actually do stuff and I find that maddening avail breaks Italian finger lands in a thing and interpreted as a click and have better but never dismissed something that is in whimsical taxes underwrite sacks I deleted something like again with the within of the distress and stress mental stress is actually a huge part of our assignment books talk about in big ways but I found that is you know it is beginning to me how sort of worked up you are about anything the matter what it is that a fax how intensive ideas and you know like just stress hormones and information no role you now connect into one big one thinks of you are worried that you don't accidentally graze your finger on the trackpad and inadvertently click something demonic like all of a sudden everything gets all much more than just a little bit more tense and a buildup of retirement sold you're looking for is just relaxed comfort you not pressing acute origin not doing anything seriously taping a mouse around my garden and for me I'm just not comfortable with The click our even though I know it would be a law and back away from use trackpad sides to divide them entirely now they do it's only does in any increase the amount of accidental clicking and I'm not missing anything to do with accidental anything anyhow okay arm the other thing that is also is that you mention that the click and drag out you can also enable the three the three fingers to to drag which I which I do regularly but I think a lot of it comes back down to you on that accidental thing is it comes back to precision and I find that the mice of the mouse is much better precision pointing and precision clicking and is a lot less accidental clicking going on and that's me I suppose it sounds like essentially the majority of your argument and and I can't disagree with that but the problem I've got so don't was enough some people some people like this is meet some people (with trackpad just fine the mouse wearied and prefer the trackpad massively it only ever really use laptops a group of laptops and the mouse seemed like an anachronism to them are and that's what they like and there are more relaxed with trackpad's and you now take a I think those people maybe they just show about you now doing doing the gestures segmented them to do in a leafy so drag like behaviour where I go now dragging and now they can drag without having although with a finger member of the okay with accidental clicks of the better in a truly memorable a result I eyed I think that I can really tell I still say that I could if we deny gay innocent of the test regatta click on squares as they appear on screen as some some collaboratory testers for a like accuracy and speed are still diagnosing would be the trackpad people but in the end what matters is what you feel comfortable with and so I see a lot of people especially younger computer users who are very very comfortable with trackpad and just terrible at the mouse and for them the trackpad Oakley is the right answer we wait till the only iPad generational tablet generation should say to be non-non-brand specific to the tablet generation they look at that the trackpad and the mouse is being ridiculous because in sight what year you are indirectly moving a pointer on a screen what why wouldn't why would you just touch it but they never had those winter widgets with their fat fingers that's an operating system designed for mother's there are different brings the minor lizard window with a winner with a wind log on to become programmers guess what is a drag better attract buyer mouse in the future because it is for now there is for an hour you are alive today I think the problem space but okay with the inside there but still interesting discussion that the bottom line notifies ergonomically goes I did come across this German study in the mid-90s they concluded that trackpad versus mice and they conclude the trackpad's were marginally better ergonomically but I confining more recent and that would have been back before multitouch trackpad's and gestures in light of the stuff so I you and if it was that close meditating is marginally better than it's really not that much better so arm honestly my feelings for is our side goes is that incorrect use of the trackpad and introduce a mouse can just as easily give you our sign-on is really seem to be any better than the other switching between them could actually reduce your overall risk is they'll generate subtly different strains from different user patterns of different devices so are and miss is that the thing is I find that precision pointing in and clicking is easier with a mouse that there are certain activities and with a mouse and other once I do with our trackpad to the trackpad I find easy for switching windows and done our youngest as being a bring up the launchpad all the overlaps which are a whatever you are just I prefer to your switching desktops arm the substance answer switching between the stops and owner in the German study where were the trackpad speakers trackpad itself as a concept is one thing but what I'm thinking of what I think of trackpad is anything that is centred under the keyboard kinder towards your bellybutton when you're using a laptop yet and that was perhaps the worst position for a trackpad to be in because it is not natural for you to have your hands are of course at your body and have them tilted in the words of the retina metal like you'd want the trackpad to be kinder where the mouse is on the right angle Streeter had your hands upon the trackpad but in practice most people using tripods and using them centrally there was a very awkward position and make everything different about about in amassing our swiping around with their fingers in the trackpad I would I had to have a magic trackpad actually don't use a bond for analysis and review with our grand but cool if you get the magic trackpad would choose to put it under either in front of the North Shore where the mouse is rated so you laptops are necessary necessarily an ergonomic compromise for affordability yet out of most people use that some of your buyers laptops you the other thing I find deny any right actually it is it is a bad spot for is that some of the HP has theirs off centre and I look at them is even more bizarre to my eyes because amendment that doesn't make them therefore suggest that your usurers are right-handed rather let anything you are right you never get into the rates by because it has to fit in a laptop at Doha is gonna be to be a like it in a given Toshiba laptop yes the keyboard should be up there and (should be down elected the PowerBook arrangement is the best you can do with a laptop but if you are the trackpad somewhere and love Dublin and the question you were underneath the keyboard. The rate reluctant to give property into the laptop you know anything the rental of the keyboard is empty space laptop and is there so late they do the best they can announce that wonders like you know well will most people are right-handed maybe the seller 10 miles and I was but that such a minor difference like you let you put it in the fire right-sided laptops still in a bad place exactly right during those are laptops are in the 90s that had a trackball and it was arm you could click on to the side of the laptop and you those because they because those are like computer design before 11 point using a pointing device was something that was important to do and I are well seems like you like to do only use these in a Windows or whatever with pointing device but I cannot dump designs amalgamated for I know that on this semicircle ship thing of quick underside proudly was a trackball that was after the rate you can use refinery order abutters are obviously stacked Alan van Eyck sticks reduction to the PlayStation controller's hourly eye differences in particular types very quickly learned a copy of my computer Apple and the trackpad a electro present be put them below the keyboard is positioned in the dementia task has some can let you turn this into a gaming think maybe another time not just okay so a right arm so just to let you know what I do is I actually cheat and rather you could argue that this is a sign that I'm neither bought into either alternative wide option but I don't care I have a mouse and a trackpad in the sitting right next to each other and I use one-for-one their somethings and one for the other things so they go arm I have my magic trackpad are right next to my my Logitech dark light which sounds really sinister but it's not arm what I called a dark field whenever I do use a magic mouse for a while arm and I really am considering a ceremonial burning ceremony for it because my hand hurt so badly after using it for a few weeks I just had to stop using a mouse altogether for a whole week to recover it was that bad so you found the magic mouse game every used one like a memorandum as main computer thing whatever sin in the story looking a bit or piece of sculpture is way too low and to help you wait till over many years and it also seems like is too heavy and silent never even seriously considering using one for any other like display purpose I do like to just resonate up I do like the idea gonna culmination of the canal you got a lot that I do adjusters but they can use that is too low it will be survived and agree mouse exactly them totally grammar again so when I did have my issues at RSI about a year ago are I switched are temporarily to an overall and I think it is Avalon and have announced that anyway vertical mouse for the Bluetooth model there is a link in the show notes and link assurances to the US Apple store Apple online store and there was a comment from someone asked Ali Sam from Lynn Croft anyway and they had exactly the same problem that I did the Bluetooth side of it Disconnecting it started when it was going across the mouse go across the screen you need a bumper to wake up an offer to work it would sleep like really quickly so maybe if the why there is a wide model maybe five chosen a wide molar worked out better for advice to stop using it mainly for that and by which time I switched jobs and adjustable high desk MR I went away after I got the correct height desk and correct highchair anyway so I stop using the mouse but in any case and you already told me that you still use your new stock standard stuff so mouse these desire gutter and old Logitech garden are what I was abutters really old toboggans scroll wheel that said much higher than than most other miserly logic most usually larger gonna fill your palm up our it's night one of the ones is gigantic and triplex now it's more a matter of symmetrical deployment I had bought a couple these mice one from a wonderful work, 10 years ago something they are wired mouse there are the after goal are but there is nothing fancy and they just continue to work on a break and I will buy the retina look at our current miser can use only the upper ones and I like them are and the delighted equines like my main problem with them as they seem to have just that is bristling with buttons and buttons everywhere that Northumberland buy in between the two main buttons this but inside I just might like scroll wheel in our middle click the scroll well and I do not need all the side buttons for navigation Embarcadero responder disables them just anyone to be there so I analysed your understanding of this this.mouse button this matter but he has buttons on the site are disabled because of accidentally bump them and I flick between our workspaces or something else spaces whatever and I'm like I didn't mean to do that would what you doing DOI dimes I was squeezing my mouse you're changing my screen on me so now I find to be moral pain and help in any case they were trying to help us but it didn't work out arm to trackballs and are a lot of people swear by trackballs because they can find movement to almost entirely the thumb and keep the arm at a safer angle because it's fixed and doesn't require moving around are and that's probably good it's good in terms of less pressure on ligaments but the other truth is that it's really a different set of muscles you're using when it is moving your thumb around then you are we moving a mouse so well you really doing is if you develop RSI as a result of using a standard mouse badly over a long period of time than switching to a trackball will alleviate that that won't stop you from developing our size a result of using it too much about a trackball too much the article. You're limiting the number the number of muscle groups to go into using a trackball to be much smaller than the number most of the conjointly using a mouse like nothing you can really change up on the drug board is where it is you could put in a good position but then I could knock on abusing your elbows and psyche can be amusing awake is that they are trackball like a centipede gambling just thoroughly golden tear whatever I get is not a whole-body experience all confined to just your fingers as a people like about it I have always found them was found that I'm not very accurate as you remember the old Mac trackpad in Kensington with the four buttons on them and the miners I just those that just feels like trying to use a cursor while you know what an ice skating rink and it was just too slippery to me I didn't feel precise and it was just on the fingers and maybe a little bit of the rest and it is and I would not I never use a liner fleet to get RSI from a but I would I prefer are something like me you change things up change how amusing it might even attract they give you more freedom like as you start building you know keep your hand relatively still and move your your shoulder and elbow moving around you could just move your fingertips whatever the trackpad is that the trackball is very limiting absolutely did you come across one of those orders, those are things are Toshiba call them on acupoints like a little little rubber knob in the middle of the keyboard that you sort of like you can push you point pressure on a trial and those are your IBM abdomen ThinkPads for Alitalia asset as bad as it like that they work surprisingly well that they have a similar problem to the trackball and that it feels like you're driving the cursor around the screen I get a little car it doesn't feel like an extension of your arm and your grabbing stuff so it's it's kind of like using a joystick to vector of the vigourous around our again it's it's a tiny little thing it's only one place there is a limited number of muscle groups you can contribute to to making that moves best leaders can be putting one or two fingers on and applying pressure in different directions it's good because there is not a lot of emotion I get I am also never haven't used one long enough to to get RSI from it but it seems like you'll be working a very small number of muscles tendons and nerves to get the job done because it is super limited but it has the advantage of not taking a lot of pressure and not having like it is in the centre of the keyboards of cable position but you have a lot of freedom with how you submit up with little knob domain and that all you have to do is meet up with that you don't have to manipulate is simply applying pressure so let think that probably be pretty good depending on how you and obtaining a handover to to user and known as me like an external nobility put into the rapid rate of your keyboard in a better position whatever wasn't so CRM they would just seem silly ISPs can't like your vertical mouse in a minute you can imagine a manual radical mouse was securely mounted summary was like an hour you know and F-16 are quite static as the one like Brett does actually move but is just pressure applied to it rate you could have a radical mouse that did movie just apply pressure to work unlike trackpad it would be like your driving vigourous around were trivial but weird but it might be a I personally can't wait for the neural interface we overview those experiments where they are put your head and you can sort of like to learn how to move the mouse around by looking and thinking in your brainless beast that would be awesome on our forest that is not a lifetime seems like i really hope it happens out are take a moment to talk about our second sponsor this episode and that so is an easy and affordable way to learn you can instantly stream thousands of courses graded by experts in the fields of business software web development graphic 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for sponsoring the show so quick not about typing technique we are a little bit about this before but in studies on this are all over the place but it is generally accepted that a good typing technique will reduce rsi but unfortunately whether it's a useful or measurable improvement is difficult to say because it's so difficult to qualitatively measure it our fingers crossing inefficiently selection et cetera it's very difficult to devise a test that actually accurately connects that are with with rsi because typically the people that loan type as fast as possible are people that are typing at very high rates are exposed because the typing so much more frequently aside one exacerbates the other so it's hard to separate those who i think naturally why there are so few studies that genuinely trying qualify that unless you aware of any i didn't come across in now i've just had my own theories about that make was not that using fewer fingers seems worse busy concentrating all your motion into a small number of fingers but on the other hand using fingers like your pinky that are assertive of smaller and weaker parts there are not as steady as your bigger fingers and their often ousted with the loss awkward moves to some of you go for a modifier writing acuity a thing or whatever and that's bad like we will use the area max uses a counsellor going further control kim o'connor advisory guild remote-control to Likeable over so i'd i do know either… design and others to do is to bounce out of each other as it is it better to use your fingers evenly and spread the wearers are worse because you end up like because you smile weaker fingers and up getting our are more susceptible to injury than your records are there any i don't know either and it and i'm just trying to think about how you would devise a test actually determined that arm that any kind of statistical significance arm i can think of another goal i think it was the footage of budget people to taper with the varying numbers of fingers and then did i just do that enough that you are intentionally entering out of your group to do something the wrong way to the moon another guide and i'm not a scientist and take up your tape up your right index finger in your arm take you to fingers and see how faking and fussing arm called anyway all right keyboard skills red keyboards are and the essentially i went down this road and i i found things that's were not what i expect is always lower when doing research for this and i discover things i didn't expect were nonintuitive so i gave two measurements actuation force the keys and actuation distance so arm just a little quickly maximum different actuators request maybe to some people at some point on an open really cares for them on a cherry corporation generate a lot of mechanical keyboards which is thereon i say everyone are lots of hard-core programmers love their mechanical switches and anyway they range in force between 45 g to 60 g of actuation arm and actuation force and distance of travel is mama 2 mm for your initial sensing distance and 4 mm for your bottom out the traditional and i say traditional ibm model m keyboard to consider traditional birds been around a long time anyway are use the buckling spring which is a very unique sound and it sounds it is getting what sounds like you push down the spring it compresses eventually are the other spring buckles and that's what causes a little little latch to deflect down actuate the key are the very near every unique sound that really like them to be honest anyway 65 g of force and the actuation distance but varies between 2.3 to 3.7 mm arm outs or mitsui mechanical switches were used in the apple extended to keep what actually you one you mentioned i think that she is naturalist and to for a while that was my from there tara massey 30 year up until gas i am of high salary like maybe 1999 the raspberry entirely in a night it was overnight longer than that when they switch to usb are maybe arden the kuwaiti three maybe and i still use a lot of that immediate or soothing really any before the cover of the able extended wallet that you could have bought an 80 and adb to usb converted allegory but i didn't doubt as a means of the door the power mac g5 that's honest up is the apple extended how to call their enough wealth for another travel distance of those are is about 3 1/2 mm after the alps alps models because they made those out of two different manufacturers in a slightly different between them and i couldn't find any information on the mitsubishi switches off you gotta be curious anyone is listening but anyway are so silly switch over a rubber dome also referred to as a pantograph switch and and that's the type that using a apple aluminium keyboards or alumina keyboards if you prefer asked if i grams of actuation force pretty is pretty standard but that the big one is the one to 2 mm of actuation distance so it's it's less so this is which are keyboards have a balance of that tank till tactile sort of feeling are but they come along with that low travel and job some summer keyboards have much lower actuation force as well but it depends on the model apple model army are not so much much pretty much the same as most mechanical switches and even though buckling spring soap anyway the lower travel are leads to a lot of people have learnt on older keyboards to bottom out regularly and i suffer from this unfortunately i try not to but i can't help bottoming out on the skis all the time so do you define it a problem for you so that's the reason i switched from the able extended to which it i still wake better as the mayfair regulator was still using it today but are what i found it happen with them is that i would own a taping harder like pressing more are you know partly because of allegheny to depress more in order to make the clicking properly because it is needed is more pressing needs to be done for that long travel and make easement in assertive if i knew something in typing furiously because you've had a brainstorm about something or because you under pressure to do something or that is the worst thing ever just just the worst are and when the limit apple keyboards came out i i am merely like them because the as i could tie the force minute tape more gently great big hug and bite me out don't thing if i feel myself doing that is like you typing too hard now as you didn't get that sensation with the applicant a longer bang bang bang and loss of several hundred dry my credit arm and so the alumina keyboards are there is a very flat was a big thing keyboard should not be tilted that the keys are father revenue should not be higher than the cuticles you have anything you may want a negative tilburg was down but the really shines be flatly long keyboards they are slightly tilted but barely compared to the huge wedge that is the able extended tips of his things are flat and eating very light i i type on the more gently i'm not opengl enough i feel it and i say you should be tapping my journalling is about i've stuck with since then is just the able extended limb keyboard because it's my gentle taping keyboard and the less the lasso presently gives the more gentle lounge than the better it feels onerous you are exactly gives you the ability to correct yourself you put your healing and so hard and i find that when i'm in a hurry i tend to hit the keys and a bit harder and i'm on my sort of shaking my head out myself and i know i should be typing more softly but the thing is i i title on the typewriter in early days i speed and worse but i got better with age i think while i think so anyway are and you brought noise unless nothing is some people swear by the mechanical keyboards but they are almost always noisier almost of some models require that depending on the different kind of switch but generally mechanical keyboards are louder and in an office open office environments rm by haddam glass company are my god to company's ago time flies arm an application is that regularly may sound like i do but i don't but anyway and arm he was a big fan of mechanical keyboard and he was throughout separate seats away any toys he was typing from that far away as it is just now imagine every single keyboard and the entire office is one of these louder keyboards using the typing rooms back in the ligand in the newsroom and the old movies as yet there was the back i know there are but it was a robbery taken away in the mechanical iq at exactly the anyway button so i did to. i used to have a microsoft microsoft ergonomic keyboard article microsoft microsoft was interesting and are icy in about 6 pm alongside that though i'd eventually stop using it as got water damage i didn't i didn't really think is a great keyboard to be honest and i use that way before i had rsi i use it because arm my mother reported on because she had been suffering from a virus i showed your wishes and the law typing and she got energy and wanting more when she stopped working there and now is no point for practice typing anymore says most things i find is booby-trapped to assume that if you just use an ergonomic mouse and ergonomic keyboard arm that will stop you from developing rsi and it's really not true and you that the tense angle on these ergonomic keyboards and all these different little they vowed not tell you that the only keyboards are so amazing and everything that my experience is that they won't and i did find there is no objective studies that i could find all the studies afraid of the typical manufacturer blurb in eyesight this keyboard is guaranteed to notice hard and i save your wrist from dropping off or something insane as i walked away because you say that it's your keyboard now i don't trust that is an objective test and so i do not acquiring a link to any and i honestly have my doubts i think that the force of which you type and hemi breaks you take this far and any adjustment of your your you see is far more than influence and we have an ergonomic keyboard or an ergonomic mouse now and all other things being equal there are keyboards do put your wrist in a slightly more neutral position and the having an hour keyboards different people who are having problems and using a standing him or is it simply changes their environment if someone was living around cuba and started to get rsi genuine 29 ergonomic on my briefly updated and is trying to get what you think about your hands are coming from the comfortable with that wider than kubrick's civil shoulders wider than than the honky's right to come in in an angle in your transient your regular triangle demands with the newt strenuously resurrecting followers and are you bending your bending the tenders and arrest delivering a menu putting down the ergonomic keyboard is like rai to relax a little blood let them be a little more unable it lets you not turn them over as much the palms of his mystery down and andy corrections to those angles are so slight it slightly is not exactly carolyn another is a little bit tilted and how far tilted up other very high tilted up just tiny little bit and sometimes that's takes to alleviated the bronze people are having a better very minor problems but because of this so many other things could be going on that you around cuba and you put on your desk and is way too high art the spirit you have much bigger problems and the thing is still generally now given is that i was able bronze i gardening arm keyboard never had a problem they could be children and because the threshold for injury may be of me and just been crossing oranges making this minor adjustment document all the other bad habits is enough to put them in that threshold in the motion sickness write a final plans and final cards are not fine on underground australian psychologist ongoing gravel road along gravels and companies on your phone rated survey found sort of the media release for an hour until they get all the better that these are the main barrier for it that there are no argument i was can you still typing from unfortunately is so far now exactly keyboard layout just quickly now i again read a whole bunch of different things saying the devorah was better than quoting and is in terms of far efficiency and in terms of our therefore that the logical supposition that well sorry to lock it so it's is an incorrect subpart's conclusion to draw from the facts i am waiting for the fact is that is therefore better rsi that the old story goes and is to perpetuate the old story are that query layouts were favoured by typewriter manufacturers are things remington actually and it was designed to overcome the tenancy a fast typist by pressing common letter combinations close together such the hammers jammed but the theory of that was remington tried lock in users that were trying to use their heirs by that there keyboards on their typewriters because of that by using a unique keyboard layout and of course it stuck then stop the malefactor from copying now honestly one of either of those is actually what happened or that actually triggers so much out there about this to and fro it is done and what to think so what is undeniable though is that the query layout was never developed with speed ergonomics balanced or tested with any kind of rigour whatsoever it wasn't what it was they kept themselves but the funny thing about the devorah layout was that devorah the arm dr ra august devorah who moment on 1 august 1936 published a simplified devorah keyboard are layout claiming vast improvements in speed and reduce fatigue but the original study was cited by the u.s. navy and that sort of yellow pushed devorah during world war ii but when i went digging for this thing turns out no one's consent to find which is a bit of a worry are and there was an interesting study 1953 by the australian post office that found the devorah keyboard if you look at the results carefully was of marginal benefit at best so i guess to me what makes sense as you're not reducing the total number of finger flexors michael natta type a word you just marginally reducing the lateral finger movements and that may not actually play as big a role in our size was previously kind of thought elicits my take of you come across are not looked at this and a lot of people do use the dragon's kind of you that it's not like i have heard that it's more efficient i am interested in efficiency let me try doing that and you know that it does in obliterating english words lets you keep your fingers moral honky is because is more useful things nearer therein gives the common characteristic easier makes them less of a stretch but i do study of the absolute number of keystrokes is the same our everyday limousine thing and the corrosive increase efficiency as people might just take that and continued at the same typing speed if you are gaining any efficiency from seminar having to give finger off on rover words when you start to take them off what you do is mostly woods and fred that efficiency protopic speed is in a tavern faster than you were before so you're not really controlling all the variables everything my goal be betrayed as we tried that and marginal benefit dinner like it could be that the divide people are become the note takes less muscle effortful and save any descent with a faster or that you're on the tape and quicker person really varied that holiday dispute is the same but there have longer pauses between words and individual words, faster because it is still somewhat more efficient naming humans are really good just your you may think the only difference of adjusting to keep the operative habits will change best allowed amount of correspondence and multiple learning quality immediately secondarily learn devorah axel knows it'll ever be as comfortable for them is there a singular and on into this type of tussle so hard to to do are especially if the if the expected differences going to be smile that it was never able to control everything do it to agree words like you get some kind of slamdunk result we like wow that that is a huge change and is not a subordinate owner to control the magic executives of the russian have big differences so i i'm not i'm not convinced that it's that much of a when they could be convinced that they give you decided fingers now and say arrays of the current humans and resolving current human keyboards and ignore the virago will be fine with that because it does make a little more sincerely someone thought about it a little bit you exactly and and and that is great unfortunately whether or not that this amounts to anything more mythic figures that i i saw in in in a few studies were 1 to 2% that's that's not much of an improvement it's in it's an improvement but it's not much of an improvement so i know i at least they thought about that still arm and whilst the majority was in the world and knots are devorah could always be an argument against as i was putting addition of you devorah keyboard new backpack and take it with you so you're a sinus computer i'd sang a significant keyboard for i can start typing and odours that doesn't just uses a qwerty keyboard but it changes thinking of the important thing in a model input manual law flag and menubar whenever an interstate is the wrong kit so you can't do the computers rotate something that comes is generous because there is a cranky was the arcuate yet within the keys don't match like if you pushing a k on the quote when the k position on the keyboard it would we was the k but you're not seeing km to site outlets confusing to slash as they were colder assist insane these people are special i could not do that may build amok estimates as a damning indictment right down just now are a couple people recover keyboard that has nothing printed on the key gaps just black well not happen as it is an entire alike fall extended keyboard with accuser entirely features black that's intense wow was altering another link is in your lessons if that's true if nothing else that would definitely be a side effect okay so after all this gear chairs desks go trackpad trackballs mice whatever that we've talked about byo or demand your company pays for it and i've heard different things people that believe that that the day but they got issues of rsi and companies some company's will for pay for it some people won't some countries won't someone required to go and get medical certificate proving that you've got sour or a doctor thinks that you've got which is necessary proof that whatever the point is that you know should you bring your own or should you demand that your company pays for if those of you doing for a living ultimately in my opinion arm it's just quicker and easier to get stuff you want if you do it yourself and i guess the the way that i try and approach this is if my job or my hobby involves working on a computer than i want the right tool for the job or perhaps the best tool for the job to make my job or my hobby easier and the other computer is a tool of my trade so therefore i would like it to be a good tool for of of my truck and about all this can reduce my stress make my life easier in the long run beyond rsi that obviously our side grabbing the topic of this the focus of this bit and i think if you take the time and a little bit of money to invest in a better tool for job even if your employer won't get a better net result are in the end at least that's what i think however in some cases in allowed to bring in your own pc or mac into a company that generally they won't ban you from bringing your own mouse keyboard trackpad or ergonomic device of your choosing our pressure when i give you bring your own chair but i guess i've seen people are done they just have given up with the corporate red tape and said you must justify why ampicillin ergonomic ball and they just brought their own senior whatever so arm this is my opinion i get outfit for companies like preparing for it the company's best interest to do this in the grand scheme of things how much it cost have an employee this is peanuts ask and it is where less than paying for alike disability you know have added having tonight have that their employees work our adam take time off across the business much more like the silly filament evident the downside of of companies paying for it is very often it's difficult to get like the exact thing that your my goal we have a keyboard address you want keyboard red is the one you get but abundant bulk this is what you get a menu for like our world are getting me this thing a housing amuses on baratta before the specific line and is like the worst bottles i will give anyone but you're going to turn you knows about it and spend your money on your own anyway and then makers against the rules of remoulade bring my own stuff like i was going to nudge vitally company will pay for a lot of stuff i'll bring some stuff of my own and elegant worker is my own mouse and setting are treatable and abrupt home which is the right height for us to be our biggest awake using the keyboard tray often has little tiny area for the mouse and i want a much bigger area for the master have more freedom of motion that i have been alike cobbled together what we need a coupling element in the end it's silly for any company not to support its employees in being able to get whatever working environment and was comfortable and is a benefit everybody is when one the company employee absolutely but that the resistance that i've come across is our and i naturally had it people say this to me as i thought i give you that the never unexpected in a cycle a role expected a working environment we are not going to cause irreparable damage to their narrow arm from excessively using bad gear or something in art and i guess it's made as an exaggeration but the disorder is stuck in my neck a little better and i think that a lot of the same thing with screens and so on you know that the standard be in the standard screen sizes 17 inch force three that's what you get is irrigates and now starring in my 24 inch monitor couldn't be bothered trying to get one the other way this is like six years ago but anyway that expensive either last topic before we close the last element of this topic before we close is is it all in your head because i got a an email as i post the topic list are that i'm both subject only covering and it's up on them on now to have a look checkout and is this one was coming up and i got an urgent email are only a few days ago our original schedule to records and the got literally got in some of the last-minute work and they had been through an interesting experience so thanks i was worth the work is quickly repeating and that is that some you if you do fall if you've had issues of our site and you've gone to more than one doctor or if you've been suffering with for years you and it's been defined as diffuse rsis was no medical reason that i can find that is wrong then it could well be arm psychosomatic are in nature so and the thought is that analytical people or over thinkers like me may be unknown may be at high risk but are anyway found show didn't want to be named but that's okay are sent in sending about this and in their case there are so got a point where they had to stop working as a programmer promoted as the ways program for a period of time they only work on our touch keyboards like finger was touch stream which they mentioned are for a limited amount of time each day and are they had three was the pain was so bad that is in the personal life they had trouble pushing a shopping cart around because the pain and data they went there after several years at all the different doctors doing also to test different treatments different the ergonomic devices of different kinds arm it out being a psychosomatic issue and is by visiting a psychologist that you are able to potentially address those issues instead and realise that it could be in your head save you developing about rsi doctors can't diagnose specifically may be worth a shot because it becomes self reinforcing i think i'm feeling a pain therefore i'm gonna avoid doing this but the more you think about the fact that you're avoiding it then may you still be met you think just you actually feeling and when fact is not actually there psychosomatic things psychologist sold is the dividing line between physical ailments and mental ailments is currently getting a type of others uninhabited of the observed way back when the dividing line between doing things in hardware and in software it's mostly nonsensical if youth if you start breaking it down was that men do something in hardware or software like your software is running on hardware the gpu was hardware you doing it on hardware because been done the gpu but it's offer when you do it on the cpu liberal hardware they both take instructions they both pulled dead at the inner soul mental and physical grade are is a physical barber is a mental problem while your brain is party writing regulator night it is not a separate thing is like often arrested but in fact is an integral part of your body and things that happen in your brain absolutely do affect your buddy and as i call you have a mental sentiment has a physical effect mental is physical again as a physical thing is not magic the big fatty lump of things on site it's connected to the whole has the party and so the idea that it's surprising that things are going on in your head affect other parts of the body all of which are connected to the thing in your head is not crazy and just simple things like stress and what stress does in terms of information that something is that easier to understand and you know that conditions that have anything to information can be exacerbated by stress rate go in and beyond that is like i have anxieties i have anxiety about the thing i'm worried about this that's causing stress is cosmetic because red understanding arm in just tension went when you are when you tense about something and it causes your muscles to contract a new blood vessels to constrict mac you know because you get rsa -like symptoms from that overstuffed night by the same giant collection of things i find it completely unsurprising that things are going your brain can affect your body in dramatic ways because so many things that go on quite a lot in your head can cause huge changes to your buddy like many people have back problems are anxiety ridden heart conditions recite lots of things can cost big physical symptoms and i'm very aware of the terms of virus either being stressed or being tense or being intense are can be the difference between feeling fine and feeling terrible at the end of a session of using the computer absolutely the ionisers i think that it was it was definitely worth mentioning because it's so easy to fall into the that the trap of your home there is a medical scientific reason for absolutely everything and arm was that may well be true if you drive down to the finest level of detail is okay what what exactly causes stress in the brain a cable may be your you're getting stressed about something and that's causing release of certain hormone in you that hormone drives and so-and-so for the member maybe could bring it out of the level what is value breaking down a level not an obit you that's the that the simplest guest of the reason we draw the dividing line between quantum good physical and mental is because the brain is so fiendishly complex and we don't understand how it works and it's really difficult to figure out how it works because is not particularly accessible no growth is complex it is more complex than a j muscles was wandering about in an elegant forestry complex and is only sorry that we withdraw this dividing line because it is like we really know what the hell is going on in there all we know that things have done everything else and something happens and there in isolated becomes the realm of psychologist because they're like well no uraemic either but we have a series of heuristics then we can use to try to influence in that it won't make you feel better mentally and out of a sense of it goes off on our other realm because is not that we haven't we have the only way we have to influence the brands like sensory organs and eras your eyes you know you have to hear things think like that that like we cant you know we can look at things we can do like our it with weekend i sit He done it will get splintered with how we cant recite it we can flex like all you gotta do is like you get a doctorate that is like berkeley guardian up so it becomes a different kind of science but it's not because it's the same as the rest of your physical body to creatively bigger understanding of it is so incredibly primitive compared to understanding the rest the body and arrest the monies and agree either so roxanne in the dark about a brazier is doing the best we can exactly well said i think we should really wrap it up and at this point arm one more thing yes one more thing we want more aid environment and are is a checklist that i would think that is perhaps the most important thing is that one piece of advice that i give people now is about rsi is something i don't have time to go into a big long conversation about our it's dinner that these nikkei 200 players type less this is perhaps the most important thing you can do if you have any kind of virus are problems whatever it is you doing and whatever it is that hurts do less of that and that's the easy one a second my maturity mentioned is if you going to do the same amount do not do that amount continuously taken bricks so it didn't do what you doing doing less and why you doing take breaks and that means getting a program that that set the alarm off like a screen exiting brick do whatever it takes those two things in additional economics of the dark about i think they're equally important of all the panoramas just do it less and how do you do it less like i got a job harder and i possibly do the stingless are if you are doing things that are not part of your job that involved the same thing find other things to do so you will have a bigger as i promise that you know i a program when a work in a program for fun and a good sleep and i had to find something else to do refined and as it was interesting phenomena is like now i feel good about watching television programming awake and watching television program is not taping and cyber like you should start getting into movies and television shows things do not involve you sitting in front of a computer and using a mouse and keyboard and i would do those things and i would feel good the way people feel good when the vegetables are good at the gym watching tv shows like i am doing some good my body by finding harvey that does not involve taping in oracle juggling a whatever he wanted do a double and i can get exercise and on the computer but just type less use the mouse lessees imperialists and take breaks excellent i know you can't see my notes because hmi notes either but that's okay but that's a christmas exactly what was the simplest piece of advice is to just get up every so often and take a break you out however you whatever that break had turned out to be the ongoing deep yoga for 60 seconds what does matter just change what it is you're doing is causing you the rsi issues or could potentially lead to our site issues and there's a whole bunch of different studies at the sort of percolated down and the general consensus seems to be take a one minute break about every 15 minutes but extend it every second breaks every 30 minutes extended five minutes so take a minute break then work from 15 take five and a break then were from 15 to 1 minute and son and just as taking a break getting up and moving around you and integrate doesn't mean i cable and i'm typing away this email now a change in eyed and i am somebody you use the same keyboard and mouse that that's not what i mean get up and our genitalia i've given eyes of someone else asked me to stay a while ago and now i am in the zone i can't get up now, carefully and as i get up anyway if you get up evidently i find the brakes that they recommend you list your heart and i'm sure break to greg how long should i be the worse off you are the more frequent your breaks a bit like taking a one second break every five seconds for the entire day is probably better than going for 30 minutes straightening a five minute break if you're if you're bad off like if you have a brs asia and is a big flareup like 10 seconds everything is taping versus amended versus two-minute second in the world of difference they can demonstrate injury noninjury if you're in a delicate situation we are trying to recover from something like that the total amount time is like dogs that you are sitting in front of 95 is a god of your job try not to be even anywhere near a computer between the use and ipad something you something different to a different motion doing anything get away from it but why you're there get one of those programs approximately are having a problem darla persaud observing an executive second break every 30 seconds like that sounds crazy our budgeting and bringing the longest if your program will give you time to think given time to breathe together many fringe benefits you become a better program abides chilling and thinking before you type in our thinking between statements that you that's it and in one example looking forward to without a watch is the that it tracks off new start-ups are down and that's good then i settled violent shows you so you can go you could set times and sounded there is an apt or written by the arm might gym be in colo arm called a stand up and now that that's one example are of i am sure dozens of different apps that that that help to time to tell you what you are signing up and move around and install refill your beverage more often than you think you should if you want to go down about africa border get a fresh cup of water just an excuse to get up and go oxidise us anything about liquids if you consume enough liquids and you have another about the.if you have to have you after you got about holden just go as soon as you feel like any reason to get up and walk around is good because it and add that this is fighting as the zone thing also comes on a calculating know you will hurt yourself like there it may be as a young man's thing i remember being in the zone i still can't get into a material but i find that if i have i find that i'm in the zone and i have to hold the applicant together something i'll have that whole day that evening and that night and that morning think about it when i come back in the next day and never will be able to someday will undo whatever they did unless you know tell you the minute the previous day that i have now thought of something better and that's just something to the edge and wisdom of like knowing that if you give your brain some time to work on this problem will come up with a better solution that would what you think is there are some solutions can a walkway now probably word but it is coming in a big flash maybe think about it a little bit more i think when you're in the zone it gets very much tunnel vision and you tend to get to focus in on you discuss all the promises bring in the zone i keep going and you don't stop to think about the other ramifications beyond the specific issue you try to solve it if you've got are a bit of codes can have a lot of interaction with with other components other objections on and so forth annual tenderness things and i yeah i totally agree about exactly the same thing i take a break i come back i always turn out better code than if i'm in the zone of i feel like i'm in the zone feeling i'm doing great i'm really not in the next day like let yourself sleep line-up is what you find out if you had an awesome solution to the wrong problem and that we look to the big picture alike does this problem you need to be solved automatically doing to do even in this pyroclastic revenue this entire thing is like is this an actual primary have a you know how my friend the entire thing wrong heatedly older because it is the wrong approach even if it's like a brilliant implementation of that approach i find that all the time and so you're taking breaks and thinking is beneficial absolutely so i find when i take a break from and what the great things i people been dragon on our tablets recently saying on tablet sales are slumping therefore it's the end of tablets or whatever but no it's not that irrespective the point is that that is now in a new different data entry method using different set of muscles so what i'll do is if i get fatigued to all, take a break from topping a keyboard and i'm at home get up and i will you continue working on my ipad on account difference in position different set of muscles and yard that that's another way i can shake up a bit and you are in and that works for me are so you i think that's that's great so if i do put in order of priority on improving and you had to get equipment is beyond the free one the completely free one a cost you nothing i guess that's the definition of free and art which is getting up regularly then i would start with the chair are followed by the desk any foot rest and exit everything flows from that arm yes adjusting the screen height you know it if you can get an adjustable height as i some people… some companies do is give you the monitor and a modest understand and it's sitting on the desk you can't really adjust the height while if you can get a monitor arm and adjust the height then then that's a big help for me to get a physicians desk reference get a bunch of thick books that i have worked just the ou under cards renouncing big box stand but the migrant up sometimes not the studies in the world but it it works i actually work for a company that can you believe this actually banned from using books because they said the books were unstable they had to be company approved monitor stand like squares of plastic presently rated but is only really give you this was a basic outline representative but you know whatever it takes like forgetting things of height adjustments and doesn't need to be rocket science to get things in the right position that's true i do i do prefer monograms though because i can position the screen exactly the right spot on so far but anyway are that's that's getting the nice to have but not as is as important perhaps and now down the list to our ergonomic mice and ergonomic keyboards and that's where a lot of people start but honestly i think you get diminishing benefit from them anyway they met if you currently have our assignment using a different matter economic counselling i keyboard could help but it depends on specifically what rsi you've got try a few different mice and still works for you that's the bottom line but did don't think it is getting an ergonomic ergonomic mouse or keyboard is gonna save you are and then now finally when you're typing just time is a soft touch as possible and the less strain the better and are yet that's it any other party. the result was sampled from them we have less than tape or take a break from typing are okay well if you want more about this in regions where a john geagea and my sciatic business with glasses hosted along with my writing like this any feedback please use the feedback form on the website and as we also function as this episode if there is opportunity cover you can suggest and vote on the site under topics once you sign up for a free account i've also started to release exits and show that a one-off top that off topic and a company may have sampling addenda look for another side of the cast addenda via pragmatic show on twitter to see show announcements and other related stuff are just we also identified a thank you to our two sponsors firstly for sponsoring a show if there is anything you'd like to learn about and you're looking for an easy and affordable way to learn than leonard can help you out instantly string thousands of horses grab and build the business of developing graphic design and lots more visit ly get a free tending to learn something new also like to say thank you actually like sharing blogs calendars task management and actually visit the rl started it's really creepy to use up the credit card required to sign up and start playing also like to thank my guest host john syracuse of the coming of the show and what's the best way to get home in twitter are they were read anything that and you can also buy me are everywhere you fantastic thanks for listening andďż˝
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Show Notes

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John Siracusa

John Siracusa

John writes widely acclaimed OS X reviews for Ars Technica, blogs at his site Hypercritical and has a podcast with friends called the Accidental Tech Podcast each week.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, software developer, podcaster, vocal actor and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John is a Chartered Professional Engineer in both Electrical Engineering and Information, Telecommunications and Electronics Engineering (ITEE) and a semi-regular conference speaker.

John has produced and appeared on many podcasts including Pragmatic and Causality and is available for hire for Vocal Acting or advertising. He has experience and interest in HMI Design, Alarm Management, Cyber-security and Root Cause Analysis.

You can find him on the Fediverse and on Twitter.