Pragmatic 70: The Seas Will Rise

27 February, 2016

CURRENT

The cause of global warming may be hotly debated, but rising sea levels are a fact. Vic joins John to talk about how fast it’s happening and how our cities will need to adapt.

Transcript available
Welcome to pragmatic is a discussion so contemplating the practical application of technology by exploiting real-world trade-offs with our great ideas are transformed into products and services can change our lives nothing is as simple as it seems pragmatic is part of the engineered network support our shows including this one head over to our patriarchal page and the other great shows visit engineer.network today I'm your host John Geagea and today I'm joined by Vic Hudson has gone Vic Unger John Harry I am very good thank you I would dart like today to talk about something that's arm a little bit different I suppose for the show arm it's about how old the sea levels keep rising have you heard of this phenomenon minimum at think I have heard a little about a year now people suitable state of the sea levels are rising because arm of global warming I guess and is it something that's has is always been in the news for the last property 20 years 30 years I suppose and has been a whole bunch of documentaries and you scary of scary entries is that such a thing most of the things you know I think that after you haven't are the one that comes to mind first of all is are the one that Al Gore did are an inconvenient truth generously that one idea that quite a while a year ago Cisco are the other ones are which was the know is not happening one is one the Bayardo was done the UK called the great global warming swindle are which is the know it isn't happening arms side of things but that would year Mars okays less well-known bits are the fact that I remember glorious made a lot of a lot of noise when it was felt you are talking about it yeah I did it and that is the thing is that I don't wants the while to tackle this particular topic is that I don't actually want to debate are or even get involved with the discussion of whether or not arm whether or not global warming is caused by carbon dioxide emissions or methane or or anything like go any good like the greenhouse effect await your call it you know all these different theories as to exactly what is causing it irrespective arm on that interested in talking about that and is a whole bunch of reasons why I'm not one is my climatologist are not on I'm an engineer and whilst I have my opinions about that I don't feel like I'm qualified to debate or discuss that so you may think well okay what's that all about the doorbell at our because I guess also just before Talbot is only one model but it is the whole sliver of human recorded knowledge that we have tells us that the sea levels are rising so I'm not gonna debate why I do know that they are Andrew that that the issue therefore becomes how do you deal with it so and I guess your problem is the reason is 74 and against arguments because they are yes happening all know it's not is that the changes that we see are all every psychic is as daily fluctuations the sun goes up sun goes down you that the moon goes around the earth and therefore tides rise tides for seasons change you know year to year and you we have decade over decade increases and decreases we have averages in such so you really need a plot a heck of a lot of data over a very very long period of time to notice any trends in each render yet exactly any trends you see them in very subtle so you .2°C or you or 1°F or whatever change over a 50 year period is can be extremely subtle detector to detect but that doesn't mean it's not happening so obviously this recording measurements are error so you've got recording our errors in your measurements and so on so how far back do you want to go people quote well you know we did there we looked at some tree core samples and ice core samples and going back are hundred thousands of years as like year but that's not as accurate as you are a calibrated thermometer in a wet dry bulbs and digital thermometers and satellite imagery and yellow radar measurements and all these things that we can do in the last 2030 years for example extremely accurate so now there's a whole lot of doubt and the other problem is that we as human beings we really don't live that long note statistically are compared to how long the planets been spending right and when were relied out yet we we think we think hand to mouth and we have terrible memories so is IATA hot summer yeah the some of the young hardliners like likely not a previous summer was the coldest on record the last three decades he forgot about you so is all very that's why think it's a specific or argue about because it is difficult to spot the trend so let's start with what we can prove what we do know so if we look at records there is absolutely no question that sea levels are rising and the evidence suggests yes definitely happening so the evidence suggests over millennia or so the sea levels rise and fall by about several hundred feet regularly irrespective of whether human beings were present or not now the cyclical thing yet exactly as it cyclical exactly right so again why well that's complicated but not interested in that if we just look at the information that we have more recently a hand in February 2016 which is while the mother recording as our NASA's GI SS surface temperature analysis showed that for the first time with modern accurate temperature recording instruments the average temperature on earth's surface has risen by 1°C so that goes back 100 in some years now it's a fact that water will expand as the temperature increases in accordance with well-established laws of physics so was a liquid there's biometric expansion and there is a coefficient of biometric expansion and a finding that water is actually that coefficient changes based on the temperature itself so the rate at which it expands varies based on the temperature of the liquid itself which is kind of funky but they have it anyway but it normalcy temperature range at the surface it's about 0.000207 per degree Celsius not a lot but there's a heck of a lot of water in the ocean and obviously as well as tablature won't reach all the way down the bottom of the ocean it will be present in the top few feet or metres of the ocean predominantly but again was a big place that's a lot of surface area a lot of volume and a lot of water so doesn't take that much even though the expansion isn't that great there is certainly gonna be an impact is no question and is also the not insignificant amount of water it's going to be caused by our buy ice so as ice melts obviously that water goes and now dumps into the ocean while at Waters got nowhere else to go except to rise the average sea level so in North America the National Snow and ice data set has been collecting data about ice pack in the Arctic for a long time and they've noted that this year 2016 is at the lowest amount of sea ice in recorded satellite image history that's not so good so obviously less ice more liquid water but the premiums are melting yes they are exactly need add more ice cubes earlier anyway if the snow falls on land though that's kind of a win because it means that it can freeze and it locks that water up doesn't go back into the ocean again so it's more that morph like our because the Arctic sky different because the Arctic is almost entirely water so you obviously was not as part of Greenland but Antarctica is a bigger area as well as other glazes all around the world and all melting the not the knots that they arm they are slowly melting the water that was trapped in them while it's now flowing into the ocean and the level has only one way to go and that's up okay so now sufficiently worried everyone listening let's stop and take a breath chortling people heard the float in Australia we call them arm are floaty is and is in the UK I think they call them angel wings or something I forget what it isn't like that anyway that you are not your main arms otherwise inflatable things of the Broward ducky head at the front that looks just weird and wrong but nevermind confusing to make a breakthrough you and that God knows just not right at all video okay cool well maybe we should keep some of those in spare just in case being the fact is anyway severity level rises go it is real it is happening and since about 1992 are the Topamax Poseidon satellite and several other since than has been launched have been accurately measuring the mean sea level and in the last 25 years the sea levels have risen 3.2 mm our workbook plus -.4 a millimetre rarer so that's just the last the last 25 years so it's not much but you know it is going up reports of cumulative the night you are matter of it yet that did the pre-exactly to start somewhere and 3.2 mm is nothing really but it's more interesting with them mum get to it so the reports of the impacts on global warming on island nations and island nations in the Pacific you are like garlic Palau and arm to follow I think they're a little bit questionable because you know they claim that people have abandoned the islands due to rising sea levels and erosion as a direct result that the reality is it's actually more driven by unemployment arm so I am not shopper link to 1 of those alarmist articles in the show notes if you want to read it but read the comments at the bottom and especially the comments that are from people that actually came from Palau so deftly with the revert worth a read that as there is a little bit of scaremongering going on out there that's also undeniable anyway but the CSIRO's Antarctic climate and ecosystem cooperative research Centre website is properly the most interesting set of projections thesatellitedataIjustrefertobeforeanditcorrelatesthatwithknownmeasurementsandpredictedicesheetmeltcontributionsandaccordingtotheirprojectionsby2100that'sanother85yearstimetheworstcasemeansealevelrisewillbeabout81cmthat's32inchessothat'stheirworstcaseandifyoulookatthetrendlineofthelast25yearsit'sunfortunatethatthetrendlineseemstobeveryclosetotheirworst-casecurvelinebutit'snotbackisnotexactobviouslygoesupanddownanditcouldtrenddownagainitmightleveloffnotesit'shardtobesureitisthepredictionsoyouknowit'scomplicatedbutanywaysincewehavedevelopsarmasthecivilisationwe'vegotveryveryaccuratetopographicalmapsaboutalltheworld'slandmassesit'sprettyeasytoactuallyoverlaythepredictedsealevelriseswiththosemapstheexactlywascanlooklikenowinAustraliaisasitecalledOzcoastsandyoungerbrotherselfishlyIdecidetolookatwhatBrisbanewouldlooklikeanyimpacttotheCBDwiththatlevelriseand85yearstimeisprettynegligibleandthosepeoplethatarefromBrisbaneI'vebeentoBrisbaneyouwillknowthattheCBDandSouthbanktheysetupabovetheriverlevelbyfairwayyesseveralquiteafewmetresaremynewonefordiscoverythatnastyanywaysoSydneyarminamightbuildamoredistinctsolarwaterfrontpropertieswon'tfaresowellbusinesscanbecatastrophicyou'restillbettergetaroundMelbourneforsomeoddreasonhasabignodatasigninthemiddleofitdon'tknowwhynevermindthatarebutthevisiblepastyoucanseewhythenottoobadeitherthenthenIthoughtokaywelllet'shavealookatthestatesIcheckedoutaroundSanFranciscosomepartsofmissionBayandHuntersPointaregoingtogettheirfeetwetunsurprisinglythequotetowerwillbeunscathedasyouhopeinNewYorkatthesouthernendofManhattanaroundbatteryParkforseveralblocksabeaverdamperthannormalbutthevastmajorityManhattanwillbefinenowtogoonalldayrightaboutallthesedifferentcitiesallaroundtheworldbuthonestly1mor3footriseinthemeansealevelwillnotgreatlyaffectmostcitiesonanaveragedaybutthat'snotsomuchtheproblemtheproblemismoreaboutthestormsurgesandfloodingcausedbyreduceddrainageratesbecauseyouasasyllableriskishighertheotherkingtidesthataregoingtocomeinagocausedthethebiggestissuestheymaynothappenallthetimeofthehappenregularlyenoughtobequiteapaininthenecksoyousoonceyouhitbignumbersinsealevelriseslikefiveor6marmyouandwherewaywaythat'swaytoofaroutheaccuratelypredictedthispointyoucannotlookatanyonethestraightfaceandsayIyearin215076mninenoneinanburningrightarmsojusttoturntheproblembackaroundIjustdecidedforfunIhaveAustraliafunclearlyarmhowhighwiththesealevelneedtobebeforemyhousestartedtohavewaterflowingthroughitanditneedstobe32morhundredand5feetsawawaysoffthatpoliceformyhouseburningrightthat'sthealarmistsectionoverBeingbendingmoveonarmsolet'sseesoitIguesssomethethingiswhenIstarteddoingengineeringIhadaverydifferentideaofwhatthepointofengineeringwasofthoseislikeinventingcoolstuffandyouarebuildingandfixingcoolstuffandisthethingIlearnedthemoreIdiditinwideengineeringwasengineeringismoreaboutourlongevityuptoapointsowhenwereaskedtodesignsomethingyouknowfromacivilpointofviewcouldbeastructurewhichisproperlythemostdirectlyimpactedbythingslikesealevelrisesyoufacilityofsomekindanetworkwehaveadesignlifeyouknowthat'stheamountoftimethatthesystemisexpectedtosurviveandwillselectcomponentsthathavethatcosttradeoffandsayrightwellIcouldgotosummerscanlastthousandyearsbyit'sgonnacostyou200timesasmuchwouldyoulikesayingthelast50yearswhileit'smuchmoremanageableyetthatwecandothatforyoufivebucksnoworrieseagersothatdesignlifedrivesthecostthecomplexitythatourjustthedifficultyoftheprojectinitsit'sait'saveryveryimportantfactorwhenwedecidethingslikedesignlifeit'sverysingularyardslikewellwe'regoingtobuildabridgewecanbuildabuildingwecanbuildaroadwasitsdesignlife50yearshundredyearswhatdomainsdoweexpectperformingattearthingdownbuildanotheronebillIrealisewhenyoubuildabridgeIbuildabridgetolastforeveryoubuildabridgetolast400years200yearsandyouexpectthatBrentonafterawhileit'sgonnagetmycorrosioncracksanddamageascanbecomemoreexpensivetomaintainitthenistobuildanewoneandthat'swhenyoudecidetobuildonthebridgenexttotheoldoneandteartheoldonedownandthisiswhattheydosothethingthatoccurredtomethatwhenIsingaboutthisisthatit'sverysingularyouknowhowmanypeopleapproachacitythatwayforatownIthinkveryfewtownshipstowncitieswhateverhaveadesignlifethattothembecausenooneseesitthatwaywethinkit'salwaysgonnabethereIguessIguessyoucouldeasilyarguesometheseminingtownsthatthisjustabunchofdemountablebuildingsandlikethecampsthatIspendtimeinthelastcoupleyearsintheconstructionphasebutIsupposeyoucouldarguethatifyouknewyouonlyhad50yearsworthofcopperinaholeinthegroundyouwouldadesignedthetowntosupportthatfor50yearsnowthathecaresbecauseyoucanshutupshopandweoweputanythingbackallenvironmentallynicelyandistheendofthatchapterinobitwhentheywerebuildingManhattandidtheystopandthinkyouknowmaybeit'snotgonnabehereinanotherhundredand203ideasnotundergirdedsothat'sthefunnythingaboutengineeringisthatitisthetownsandcitycemeterydifferentlylikelyoverthereforeverbutthey'renotgoingtobeandthisistheproblemsowhatifwediddesignourcitiesofthedesignlifeandifwedidatwhatpointwouldyouabandonshipImeanexactlyreallyterriblemixedmetaphorbecauseafterallit'sthetheoceaniscomingtoyouanywaysohere'sthethingrisingcanyouevenprotectcitiesagainstrisingsealevelsandtheshortanswerissometimesbecausenothingisasimplesiteIthoughtitmightbeinterestingtoseeifweacceptKChereisthefactweacceptsealevelsrisingyesitslowyescanIhaveaminimalimpactatleastfromastaticpointofviewbutfromastormsurgepointofviewandit'sgonnabeaproblemsohowdowehowwedealwiththisandwecanacttherearealreadytwofantasticexamplesofhowthisisbeinghandledalreadyinthefirstoneforthosepeopleinLondonhaveyoueverheardoftheThamesBarrierIhaveexcellenthaveyouseenepisodeofDoctorWhowheretheywenttotheThamesBarrierarmbeforeyougotofurtheracumenwereequippedwithayesordodgingeverybodyknewwhowasdefinitelyeverythingeverythingyoutheseparatedClassicothereisstillprettygoodidentityinexcellentyesasgapsothatonedayDonnaanyhowsorrydiggingoutthereanywaysothatwasbuiltin1982anditwasbuilttoprotectLondonfromfloodingcausedbyKingtidessothat'sanexamplethatexistsrightnowwasbuiltwasthat80to2016sothatthe34yearsarmhoneytocalculatorcanmattermyhead-buttingusrightanywaysothat'sthat'sarecentexamplerighttherenowarefarbetterexampleisanentirecountryeverheardoftheNetherlandsIhaveseeI'mneverbeentheNetherlandsbutIhearthattheyhaverememberedoveryourarmI'veheardtheysellsomeinterestingstufftherethatyoucanknowverythatiswhereisalittlebitofmisinformationareovernightingtherumoursarejustrumoursreallyguidesanywaysoheknowsareasonedargumentbutwillsaybutIthinkthatHollinssorrytheNetherlandsIshouldsayareisincrediblyimpressiveforwhatit'smanagedtoachieveinfromacivilengineeringpointofviewit'sabsolutelyincrediblesosomepeopleknowthissomepeopledon'tsoIthoughtitmightbeinterestingtostilllittlebitofhistoryofhowtheDutchhavedealtwiththisproblembecauseintheNetherlandsthey'vebeenreclaiminglandfromtheoceanhundredsofyearsandIsayreclaiminglandfromtheoceanit'safunnywayofthinkingaboutit'slikeinstandardshorelineandsaidrightthatsaidthatmyLandonshouttheoceanalthoughmaybesomeofthemdidbutanywayalsogottarealisethatwhentheNetherlandswasfirstarmwaywaywaywayback2000yearsagothemajoritytheNetherlandswasjustswapitwasPeteswamplandanditwasjustuninhabitablebecauseBillaren'tyoujustthinkyouwillquiteyoujustthinkitwasjustaswampmostofitanywaysotheycan'tfiguredwellwegotthisbetterlandwhatcanwedowithitsowhatthey'vedonesuccessivelyovermanyhundredsandhundredsandhundredsofyearsisthattheyhavegraduallyextendedthedamsandtheycalledthemdikesandIfirststartedtobuildthemjusttoholdbackstormsurgesandwhentheydidtheyrealiseitwaspossibletoactuallythenusethelandthatwasbetweentheseawalltheDykeareandwheretheywanttoliveandtheycouldactuallystarttocontroltheirdestinysothemethodsthattheDutchdevelopsIthinkIcanstarttobeemployedmoreandmoreindifferentcitiesaroundtheworldaswetryasweturnedcivilengineeringasawaytoprotectourexistinginvestmentsinlowlyingcitiesfromrisingsealevelsofcoursetheproblemisthattherearesimplygonnabesomecitiesthatyoujustcannoteconomicallyprotectit'sjusttheDutchandtheNetherlandsdidwhattheydidbecauseIhadageographicaladvantageandunfairadvantageyoumightevensaythetopographymadeitpossibleitwon'talwaysbepossibletodoitwithoutspendingbillionsandbillionsifnottrillionsofdollarsatwhichpointsomethingawesomelydrawlinetheSenatesoyouknowwhatheyit'sbeenfunbutabandonshipabandonedtownBeninCityarewellarmasemi-terribleeventwhatifandwhenthatwegetmockedwhenwegettothatpointIthinkisnaïveaboutitwhenyoumaynotbeinmylifetimemaybedoneIwillseesowilltheDutchdoexactlywasalottobelearnedaboutwhattheydidsolet'sgooveritsobetweenabout500BCand780therewereseveralcyclesofhabitationandabandonmentprettymuchtimingintimingwiththesealevelsrisingbecauseofsinglesandrisingfallingfallingperiodicallycyclicallyasIsaidforaverylongtimebeforewewereeverburningaheckofalotofstuffsoifyouopeningaCO2argumentwhateverrightsothefirstdikeswereactuallyjuststarveverylowembankmentsthereaboutametreorsohighandtheywerebuiltspecificallytosurroundfieldstotheideaistobuilduptheseembankmentstokeepthestormsurgesoutandthenthefieldsyourcropsinsidetheembankmentsIbigsquaresbigrectanglecirclesessentiallyDaleprotectedfromtheoceanandthatalsoprotectthebackthatyouthatthepredictedacrosstheyalsowouldbuildtheirhousesonmoundstheywouldbuildthesemoundstheycallthemturnipsasinTERPStapsasopposedtointernalpurposesinmineralturpentineandanywaysoyesandIbuildthehousesontopoftheseamountsandthatwouldkeepahorsethehousefromgettingfloodedinstormsurgesworkokaysorabbitthenicecenturytheseawasontheadvanceagainandmanythatherbsneedtoberaisedbutastheraisingofherbsandrebillinghousesontopofthemtheyessentiallyhadhadcombinedabunchofthesesingletapstogetherthoughthesidetheedgeofthemountinghikerwatchtowerifyou'dlikewhattheydidastheybuilttheseraisedwalkwaysbetweenthepathwaysbetweenthemandthatwouldconnectthesethatwhatwillthestepsgrewintovillagesandastheythenbuiltthesepathwaysbetweenthemandbuildthemupandbuildthemuptobeaallweatherraisedpathwaysthatessentiallytheysimplyjoinedabunchofthesetogetherandthatbecamethefirstrecordeddikessobyabout1250A.D.mostofthedikeshadbeenconnectedtogetherandtheycreatedacontinuouswallandactedasadefenceagainstthattheseaanddrivenbyasoIguessthatthepopulationwasincreasingbecauseofthisandtherewasaknifeapparentlydoesafairbitoffundingandmotivationfromthelocalchurchesoftimebutwhat'sinterestingiswhathappenednextoverafewhundredyearsofthetidescyclinginandouttheartificialbarrierthattheycreatedcreatedtheturbulencesectionoutfromthebaseofthewallandwhatthisthisturbulencecreatedwasawholenewlayerofsedimentandthatsedimentlayerwasdepositedjustfurtherenoughoutfromthebaseofthewallarebasedtheDykewallalonglongsectionsofthewallitbuiltuptosuchadegreethatonlythehightideswouldcomeoverthemorfirsttherewasastormsearchsothenIhadtheideawhileshe'sokaywecouldlittlebitaddedbufferexactlysowecouldbuildanotherwallCelestedoitsothattheystarttobuildanotherwallandthisallowedthemtoessentiallybuildanewringofdikesthatwerefurtherouttoseasotheshorelineessentiallywasmovedfurtherouttowardsintotheoceanwerewhatwastheoceansotheprocessobviouslythatletterpresswasn'talwayspossiblebutavasttractsoftheircoastlineitwasandgraduallyovermanymanyhundredsofyearsthedikesspreadfurtheroutintotheseaandreclaimedmoreandmorelandistogiveyouanideaofthedikeslikehowmanyraiseddikesthereareintheentirecountryoftheNetherlandsasoflatelastyeartheDykenetworkisapproximately22,500kmlongthat's14,000milesofDykesisfairbetyousogotheNetherlandsIguessIalsomentionedbeforeridingbacktheyaretheyaretakethatnature'sanywayarmthatwaswhattodowiththedikesjustasanasidealsoarmbeforeIwrapuponthisisIguessthequestionthequestionoftheNetherlandsalsowasn'tjustkeepingtheoceanoutitwasdrainingtheswampsandconveneaswamplandsinthesomethingusableandonethingsIwasfinishediswisewiseattheyalwayshavethebigwindmillsyouknowthebigwindmillsexamineeveryseeapostcardfromAmsterdamorwhateverisalwaystherewasaconvenientlyplacedwindmillsomewhereinthebackgroundlookWindmillnicewhyandIwhiletheyweredrainingtheswampssoIdidistheybuiltarmtheybasicallybuiltsomechannelstochannelthewateroutandtheywouldthenpumpthewateroutandthatwouldthenallowtheswampstodrainthePetewoulddryandinourstarttobuildonunfortunatelybecauseoftheweddingelsepoweringtheboxsomeofthemmodellookatsomeandtheproblemisthatasthePetedriedthoughitnaturallyjustcompactedbecausePeteisveryarmwasthewordonceyoudrainitoutitjustitisPakistan'snonwhiteunititislikedeaddeadplantmatteringrassandstuffsoanydriedoutagescompactsdownwhichmeaningyoubuildintosinksandacidhappenedbutthattheworstpartwasasit'sasitdriedandcompacteddownthatloweredthegroundlevelsignificantlywhichthenmadethewholeareaplaintiffpronetofloodingagainsothatandsothattheyarebasicallyatthepointwhenIhadtosaywellokaywilltaketheriversthatwehaveandwecanbuilddamsandthesedamswillhavedrainagevalvesletthewateroutbutitwillnotletthewaterflowbackintothemagainsoatthatpointintimetheydecideditwastimetostubJobthatthetownshipswouldnaturallyformrightaroundthosedamsbecausethatwashowIwouldgetthegoodsfromonesideandtheotherbecausetherearenobackinthosedaysIhadnolocksbecauseyouhavelocksandtoraiseandlowerboatswhilelocksandreallybeeninventedatthatpointsoyoucanactuallytakeboatsupreallyhadtocutstuffaroundthedamputonanotherboatandgoupriverandthebiggercitiesofthebiggertradingpointswerethebiggestcitieswereinthetwomostwell-knownexamplesarementionedbeforeAmsterdamandanotherwell-knownoneistheRotterdamsetsabriefhistoryoftheNetherlandsIguessandhowtheysortoffoughtbackagainstthepoorhandthattheyweredealtwiththelessonsthatyoucanlearnfromhowthey'vedealtwithitwouldstandtherestoftheworldingoodsteadIthinkforwhatisinevitablycomingwhichisthesealevelsaregonnarisetoapointwherewecanhavetodosomethingaboutstormsurgeswecanhavetodosomethingaboutthingslikeDRthedrainagesystemlikestormwaterdrainstostormwaterdrainsordrainouttotherivertheoceanwhateverasthesealevelsrisetheywillstarttoreverseflowandyou'llstarttohaveyouforexampleinBrisbanewehaveareacoupleoftheareasofthecitythatgounderourunderextremekingtidesalreadyandothersignsandyou'lldrivearoundarmcomingtofortitudeValleyhasafewspotsanotheronenearBowenHillsandyou'llseetheyellowsignsoutonceeveryIwanttoknow910monthsnotoftenandisonthesitewillbeupinOso'ssomethingawarningdonotparkcarsinthefollowingstreetsbecauseyouknowisasuperhighhugekingtiedtodayandthat'showitwillstartrightisthatwillbecomemoreregularandyou'llbecomealittlebitmoreregularlookmoreregularandthenthatiswhenpeoplerealiseallthesealevelsarerisingotherswishproducingaboutthisorideathefunnythingisIdon'treallyhavetomuchmoretoaddaboutitIthoughtwasinterestingtotalkaboutbecausepeoplejusthavethisstrangeideathateverythinglastsforeveranditdoesn'tlikeyoulookatacitylikethisisalwaysgonnabetherewasanhourthereisacityintheMediterraneanwasincruiseincreasearewhatevertheycallitthatthere'sbeenafewcitiesliketheYawasbuiltatoceanallthetimewhateverthewholebunchofbikesthatisbeguntheMediterraneanthatareunderwaternotbymuchwaterbutunderwaterandthatthey'vebeentakenbyrisingsealevelsmostlylovesabendyouupthethousandyearssomedayinthefuturemaybewhenanyonelistingthisforecastarmislonggonearmsomecitythatyou'vebeentoatsomepointinyourlifewillbeunderwaterIthinkthatthat'sinevitablewemightbeabletostopitmightbeaholdthewaterbackforawhilebuteventuallyifthiscanbecomeverydifficultandveryexpensiveatsomepointyouhavetosaywellthat'sitweredoneandIwonderthosesomedayifpeoplearegonnastopwiththeirpossessionoflivingbytheoceanlivingbytheriverbecauseit'sreallybeenalongtimesincewe'veneededtobecausewedon'trelyonboatstobringourgoodstousanymoresowedon'tneedthewaterwaysforthatandasfordrinkingwaterwebuilddamsthatarewaythatinlandwetreatthewaterypuppetswarehouseswedon'tneedtolivebytheoceanotherthanthefactthatit'sprettysoIdowonderatwhatpointthatwillstarttochangemaybesomedaythatanywaythegowethanktothinkabouttheworstpartofitisthispreciouslittlewecandoaboutit ImeanifyoubelievethatitisallcausedbyburningfossilfuelsandmaywellbeamidnightandIprobablybutifitisit'slikearmthisthingcalledhysteresistohysteresisthatuniteatthatverymomentokayit'strytothinkoftheweatherthathadthenamecamefromourattheideaisthatthereisarethereisamomentumofsortslikeelectricallysoasasyourmagneticfieldthatsaysthatatransformeristhemagneticfieldestablishingithasacertainamountofofofofenergyandmagneticfieldifyouturnofftheelectricalcurrentthenontheinputsidethemagneticfieldstarttocollapsebutthere'satimedelaybetweenthetubhowbeenturnedoffontheprimarysideandthepowerdisappearingfromthesecondarysidebecausethebanktheyfeelhastocollapsethattimedelaybetweenswitchingonandoffarmessentiallyisaisahysteresisandifitistruethatburningfossilfuelsiscausingtheconductoftheatmospheretogoupthereisnoquestionaboutthatbutifthatiswhatiscausingtheglobalwarmingandthesealevelrisesifthat'swhatitisthiscausingitwellthenifyou'restopallCO2emissionstodaylikeallofthemacrosstheworldtherestillgonnabeaenvironmentalmomentumit'salreadybeenkickedoffandpeoplesaythereisacriticaltippingpointmaybethereismaybethereasonwejustdon'tknowenoughtoknowforsurewhatwedoknowisthatthesealevelsarerisingthat'sallweknowforsureiswhat'scausingitthat'sopentodebateandiftheclimatologistmaybeI'dbedebatingthatbutI'mnotsoanywaytheygoarmifyourtalkmoreaboutthisyoucanreachmeonTwitterJohnGeageaoryoucanfollowpragmaticshowedaspecificallyseashellannouncementsandotherrelatedstuffrememberofcoursepragmaticisNepaliengineernetworkanditalsohasanaccountantengineered_netthathasannouncementsannouncementsaboutthenetworkandalltheshowsyoucancheckthemoutengineer.networkpeoplearealsoreallylovingcausalityandnutrientsoifyoulikepragmaticscheckthoseoutaswellandifyouliketogetintouchwithVickiwhat'sthebestwaytogetintouchwithEmmawerewhatfantasticarethelikesanyfeedbackaboutshouldernetworkpleaseusethefeedbackformareontheInternet.networksiteswereyourstuffontheshownotesforthisepisodeifyou'reenjoyingpragmaticandyou'dliketosupportshowthebestwayyoucandothatistobecomeapatronbypatriarchifthatpatrioton.com/JohnGGoronewordsoifyou'dliketocontributesomethingoranythingit'sallverymuchappreciatedresultofyourperksandthey'relikeaccesstotherawshownotesandsabbaticalhavenamethankyouistheendoftheepisodetosocheckitoutitallhelpsandifwereachafirstfundinggoalthanwillbedoingnextepisodeofcausalityeverymonthandwecannowandwillseehowwearesoarmthankyoueveryoneforlisteningandthankyouthankyouJohn�
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People

Vic Hudson

Vic Hudson

Vic is the host of the App Story Podcast and is the developer behind Money Pilot for iOS.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, software developer, podcaster, vocal actor and runs TechDistortion the Engineered Network and technical whitepapers at Control System Space. John is a Chartered Professional Engineer in both Electrical Engineering and Information, Telecommunications and Electronics Engineering (ITEE) and a semi-regular conference speaker.

John has produced and appeared on many podcasts including Pragmatic and Causality and is available for hire for Vocal Acting or advertising. He has experience and interest in HMI Design, Alarm Management, Cyber-security and Root Cause Analysis.

You can find him on the Fediverse sometimes called Pleroma or Mastodon.