Pragmatic 36A: Prevailing Wind Direction Follow-up 1

7 December, 2014

CURRENT

Follow up (Part A) to Prevailing Wind Direction where we address different personality types and how they cope with remote work, safety cultures around the world and recent FIFO suicides.
Transcript available
This is pragmatic follow-up part A episode 36 prevailing wind direction I'm John Geagea enjoining me is Vic Hudson has gone Vic Unger John Harry I'm very well thank you pragmatic follow-up for the month of November is sponsored by harvest harvest lets you start stop a time for any task you might be doing anyway might be doing it mobile device desktop web browser and so on so keep track of your time if you doing client work attend to know what projects and tasks are taking your time but even better you can use that information to create invoices directly through harvest which integrates easily with PayPal and striped checkout harvest and get harvest or one word.com and sign up for a free 30 day trial and start tracking your time and invoicing others simply and painlessly watches a day trial is over and you realise how great harvest is use the coupon code pragmatic at checkout and yours also say 50% off your first month and that applies to any of their plans hurry though because this offer expires January 15, 2015 to be quick okay had some really good follow-up to our this episode from a bunch of engineers and add a few other people as well as the deal better site work so are found show our end and our regular feedback contributor our rust newcomer were we worked for ADR Road invited feedback form and dad said about his experience working in a civilian the non-government organisation our inner conflict zone for about three years are why go to the details to which one is not not necessarily relevant bits he noted's are about how people would handle the dynamic of being in a remote situation where flexibility was not great signs of personal flexible is a personal freedom being artist go out to the corner shop like it was no gunshot timing right so and we talk it is in the episode and the consuming factors towards our depression different of things arm consequence of working on-site is a fly in fly out driving drive out whatever AIC noted that are his observation was a lot of it came back to where they were an introvert or an extrovert which is a dynamic that I didn't consider during the at the episode and so Stephanie worth exploring our supposition was that extroverts typically want to be around new people or at least more people than you would get in a situation and the lack of that outlet caused them some social friction and there you out and are you because you're not extroverts like you are one of the absent gap the life of the party, Fang and boys interacting with people and sign if you got a taste they really thrive on that external stimulation to you exactly and so those people naturally be very unhappy and that environments are similar hadn't really had really considered that are yours and then went on to talk about is people's motivations for being in that situation so people had our again his opposition people are who had an external reason for being there versus people who wanted to be there for the adventure or just for the money so people that were there for the money generally been a pretty quick and they start doing very bad job and that caused social problems with interactions like people in and generally those people pack up and pack it in and go home realise the money was in everything which I did sort talk about anime in the main episode people out there for the adventure rear end up realising there really was much adventure and it was the daily grind like any other it's just that you had lots of restrictions on what you could and couldn't do so you that this in other words the shine wore off rather quickly which I absolutely have observed myself when others are and even to some degree myself and our incident situation so the third one word she army mention at least was the bill has strong external reason for being there and he broke down further whether it was a he goes on to say where was for altruistic reasons are religious reasons as in any reason is not entirely self interest motivated are in other words you like not not specifically for money but for what you were gonna do with that money like I'm here to make the money so that I can do blah and daily are his examples were you buy new car park pay off a car by house powerhouse whatever you and those people had that motivation that they were more inclined the goal yes and exactly and that goal in client made more inclined to adjust and manage in that environment better than than the other people because they had something that was sort of keeping them there and I absolutely enter total absolutely and and with a golden light unit et al. make and see old that's were ongoing that's what I can stay focused I can stay here and I can continue to were to go through this call an ordeal if you like or the office some some people die seasonal dieting is awesome either way will choose to look at and and personally I found that I have been more stable in my employment after example since I've been married with kids and I've had a mortgage it definitely changes your perspective whereas previously I would be I'm kinda bored here only as proper steaks and change companies why not in a whereas now and has been the case of you for 12 years now 13 years almost that its cycle hang I can't just do that I've gotta consider my responsibilities and the changes a lot of things and that motivator also applies when you're no flying in flying out to 1 of these situations you know because obviously you you got extra motivation and in a keep you focused and you put up with a lot more rubbish in order to get to wean yet to put up with the two were to continue doing that so again thank you Russ that feedback are also some feedback from John by the name of our Max not well and his ADR Canadian from British Columbia so one lovely part of the world are owed dad went there a few times and anyway he was so ironically ironically interestingly listening to that episode while he was actually working at a remote minor construction site near Port Lincoln in South Australia now he said he was expecting this particular arm secondment he was when he wrote as emails go back a few weeks ago she couple months ago now so are it's been a few months and is under that episode so its older feedback but no feedback knows no limits so he was in Australia .3 and half weeks and he considered him from doing another two swings are of a similar duration before the end of the project so goes on to say that are his ADR chemical process engineer and his been involved in mining and automation controls for the last decade go with it spending time away 18 weeks at a time depending upon the location are he goes to list a few of them are including a six-month suspended Mount Gordon which is a gunpowder mine are near Mount Isa so are you obvious you don't mind gunpowder to sulphur allow different components are going to make gunpowder being that there was some fly in fly out fly in fly out from Vancouver are in 4 to 6 week swing such a long flight but indeed arm but the one one of his favourites was our place called our Marie Conger mine and that's in the Andes are in Chile are in fact he loved it so much he called it and I quote an absolute hellhole so yes I say like it's quite an quote like see he had a great time are you really enjoy that water all year there is an absolute top gear I mentioned in a previous episode actually facts on the image of the moment is one where her with a young they drove up into the Andes really really high now students start suffering from is acute altitude sickness so he goes on to mention that he indeed did get our mild altitude sickness when he is in Chile and a surprise everyone did because they won't use to it and he doesn't describe similar symptoms it is fascinating says it feels like a middling hangover for the first week then you just feel like bad word arm after that because it's hard to sleep food taste horrible I'll wait it was horrible and you get dehydrated in a heartbeat there are a few people experienced less serious symptoms but then they were sent back down the hill right away and they were fine then noted that they were the lucky ones so yes anyway arm noting of course that his wife is very understanding and FaceTime also helps him to stay connected with his family would just as I found in my case are he also arm just a brief shout out to pasture sponsor to life Exley said thank you very much and so he took advantage of the year of the discount code so thanks into life extra sponsoring absent anyway so arm comments he made around safety we did touch on safety equipment so I'll throw this in as well as part of the feedback and that his perceptions of risk Heath he said that the music experience people's perceptions of risk vary based on the culture and absolutely that is true I don't want to go and mention too many cultures because I do think there is a very much a generalisation however you can choose to insert whatever your preconceptions or misconceptions may be based on your thoughts about whether or not a specific culture may or may not be predisposed to a certain kind of behaviour anyway are but I will say Western cultures that this is what he said in his email Western culture will mention that one I prefer to think it is not Western culture specifically but more safety conscious engineering cultures which is typically Western cultures were not all and certainly there are plenty of arm you know company cultures within the Western IR get we would call a western company but here's the thing they don't have a good safety culture so I think it's sort of difficult makers of the blanket statement being raped we have tight safety regulations are he noted that many people still sneaking a pair of Oakley sunglasses instead of certified safety glasses which I have witnessed many times so I completely agree with that a lot of your sale but I'm wearing wraparound glasses so that's good thumbs up know they need to be shatterproof and so on and resist the high-temperature is a whole bunch of different criteria to be actually certified safety glasses sent no just because it's wrapped around your rhizotomy is not in a shattering to a thousand little shards of glass and cut your eyeballs to pieces affiliated leave if they get the threat of force that I haven't anything on it or that's exactly right so you got the right safety glasses people anyway arm he noticed another nationality would happily mixed cost exciter without wearing safety glasses at all arm I okay not working with them are there is another group of our of of cultures whether perfectly fine working at heights that harnesses are and is in some places they also have a bizarre lockout tag out system art wherein each person put a lock on the power supply then they give the key to the supervisor not a lock in box mind you just handed over to that guy for safekeeping these are his words instead of holding it in their own pocket as is normally what you do is you would you do your lockout you put your personalised arm lock on this on the on the circuit breaker let's say to say yes that the powers been isolated and you keep the key on your person so that nobody varies a record that you exactly so anyone in mind that any also noted that almost nobody in his liner were bowlers with hearing protection chair well more for them our hands up Mr Leo John has tonight so year where you down hearing protection kids could God anyway moving on strangely yearly notes hardhats have never been a problem and I think it's mainly because as he points out that there very visible might betray a bit of rough-and-tumble in the wearer done a second bit definitely the visible one it's hard to sneak by without hardhat it's pretty noticeable safety glasses from a distance from wearing a pair of Oakley's they could be mistaken I guess the safety glasses we want something in your eyes and hearing protection the inner ear foam earbud earplugs you it's almost impossible to tell from the over 50 yards away whether or not someone is wearing hearing protection but you can tell of the run hardhat or not sewing it's more about the visibility thing and the final note about the safety and PPE is that the arm his take on is that people think they're invincible until they're proven otherwise very true will never happen to me right were all supermen until they were not arm no Superman anyway indeed so are if you like scrubs although that song was CNMI fans the show arteries are lost and Andrew Canyon on via Twitter have a pronounced star and his name correctly and they commented they could not do fly in fly out work for many of the reasons I stated in the episode very common sentiment from people DOI I say people need to consider all of the rear dangers of the fly in fly out work and I mean that of course there are 20 people that have thought about it and have intentionally not got involved in fly in fly out my hat is off to you all are if you can arm you survive without having to do fly flat work especially in engineering than fantastic are I do not recommend it are it's eye-opening it's an interesting experience but if you do a deal when young when you attached to young is a sane industry is a young man's game of young individuals going to be gender non-specific and I'm gone glad that other people have thought it through a chosen path that avoids it so anyway okay arm now just to wrap up on a somewhat more our sombre note are I mentioned that the yard the mental effects of prolonged work in isolation and how they can lead to depression and suicide in the high suicide rates of fly in fly out workers compared to the general populace are even within the engineering discipline so within the project I'm working on at the moment is a huge project and its employing lots of subcontractors across a massive physical area are all from different backgrounds and walks of life some people use the fly in fly lie sales lifestyle and some people aren't so he was going there because that's where the work is and that is not used to the year the isolation there so since the episode aired on 8 September arm on our projects to lives of been lost arm neither individual work directly for the project itself they were part of an extended set of contractors and subcontractors they were living on the remote sites to do their jobs for example through extended periods of time they fit basically the criteria arm that I suggested for reasons that would lead to this sort of arm our conclusion arm for reasons I imagine out of respect for their families and ongoing investigation into their passing arm they have full details of not been released and may never be released beyond family members and besides which I don't it's really in good taste to discuss those details irrespective of whether or not the question in my mind is whether or not these two young men would have taken their lives outside of the remote locations that they were based in will never know arm one of the two has not been ruled as in as intentional it could have been accidental but that's all I know there so the reason I mention this I know that some people business episode and I'll say well that's that's fine for people that are in that situation you know and I get that but the bottom line is that this is actually a serious issue and is the sort of thing that doesn't get a heck of a lot of visibility and the whole reason that I'm talk that is in the first place is because people just don't understand all they do is they get the gas they fire up the stove or the heater or whatever and away they go and they don't have any idea where it comes from how it's extracted the people that built all this infrastructure that maintain this infrastructure that bring them all of this this energy that is to not happen away they go so we will say well it doesn't matter because I am as a consumer and I don't care what bugs me is that there are people that have gone through a lot to bring this to them in there and it is doesn't seem to be visibility of that and I think that this should be young I'm not saying it has to be headline news every single day and be terribly depressing but yea just some degree of awareness that this happens and it happened the project I'm working on right now it's it's real happens so if you are in the situation or your situation like this in your working remotely for extended periods of time and you do become depressed and honestly there are plenty of places that you can turn to just talk to someone don't do anything stupid yea the thing is in this I am I also believe that that no one known as truly alone unless they choose to be so you can make a choice not to be alone and you can choose if you are going through a difficult time to talk some about and that is the hardest part but you need to do it you need to talk to someone�
Duration 17 minutes and 55 seconds Direct Download

Show Notes

Depression/Suicide Helplines by Country:


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People

Vic Hudson

Vic Hudson

Vic is the host of the App Story Podcast and is the developer behind Money Pilot for iOS.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, programmer, podcaster and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John has produced and appeared on many podcasts as well as Pragmatic.

What Happened to Mastodon? You can reach me on the Fediverse as explained here, just search for me on your instance of Mastodon, Misskey or Pleroma and you’ll be able to follow/remote follow me wherever you are!