Pragmatic 60: Or Was That Doctor Sbaitso

7 March, 2015


With four episodes to go Vic chose a topic that was never on the list - the history of programming. We look at five key people in the evolution of programming.
Transcript available
Welcome to pragmatic pragmatic as weekly discussion show concertina practical application of technology exploring real-world trade-offs we look at how great ideas are transformed into products and services that can change our lives nothing is as simple as it seems this episode is sponsored by many tricks makers of helpful apps for the Mac visit many tricks all one for more information about their apps Butler chemo Leach desktop curtain time sink after Moon name angler and which and if you visit that URL you can use the coupon code pragmatic 25 that's pragmatic the word and to find the numbers in the shopping carts a 25% of any many tricks product is episode is also sponsored by is the easy and affordable way to learn we can instantly stream thousands of courses spread by experts in the fields of business software web development graphic design and lots more maybe one master XL learn negotiation tactics build a website or 20 photoshop skills well visit LY to feed your curious mind and get a free 10 day trial there's something for everyone there so if you want to learn something new what are you waiting for little more about both of them during the show on your host John Geagea and I'm joined today by my co-host the cousin is going Vic it is good John Harriet I am exceptionally exceptional tolerate well you know me tomorrow arm I do is select played up sometimes arm today's episode is going to be our different and different insofar as our this is never been a topic on the list exactly in fact our this is a topic that I asked this only this is the fourth last episode of pragmatic and I thought it might be nice to let you pick a topic for once like completely whatever you want anything goes so yeah I know broken so would you pick up at the evolution of programming as a programmer arm as you are I guess I should have seen that coming alas I hope it is a subject that is a bit near and dear to my heart alas I did not see it coming so I had nothing prepared and I have been crazy busy at work and I wish I had more time because there is so much to cover in this honour did best only the best I can with the time and I've got are which honestly seemed to be relatively good sentiment for life were a JPEG gift if we did it if we did a truly proper it would probably go here at NR episode so I think it's probably suffice to say it would have to be highly real no matter what I'm with you on that okay then so the best way to start is to begin all the something like that so okay I will land in line 10 yes related yellow a lot like yes but only go to line tawny and then lay the and then when you realise you have something out you can insert it alone 15 okay look 10 go to 10 and you done okay now that Evelyn has a loop job at a loop that never ends ha except the show which is going to okay ballista programming is it programming and these definitions that arm I NAC look up arm the definition of programming maybe I should have but it is I think programming is a programming is the act of instructing a machine how to behave based on a reconfigurable set of constant instructions we think that it is the definition got own pull out of anyway except my hand had a machine's primary function is to process information I would refer to that is a computer so the takeaway from doing a bit of research on this and my own personal knowledge that I've Q made over years and years and years of listening to the history of computers are an programming is that honestly there are a very great number of people around the world over the course of the last hundred and 50 years in particular other even before that have contributed big things to the development of what we know of as the computer and of programming those computers today lots of people have contributed and a lot of people overstate just how much specific individuals actually did contribute and is a lot of misunderstanding around what they contributed and what they didn't and hopefully the enemy hopefully will straighten some of that out yellow arm alternatively will make people that are cheering of von Nyman fan boys very angry and they do like twitter bombing and staff and and hate me forever so apologies if I offend anybody if I get this sum the history wrong because the problem is I've done quite a bit of research into different our people in the past and honestly arm to maybe some the salt will surprise you may be white will see so I won't tackle this one again differently arm and not just because you pick this topic Vic but because you also a very keen for me to look at some of the historical our slant so I don't talk about five of the bigger names arm of bigger in the sense of our people talk about them a lot more not necessarily bigger because they contributed more or less because that's a matter of opinion you know and a lot of the things that they said why there are a lot of conflicting reports to shortcoming history is written by Victor Wright so if and is one of things I found the patent system is that someone invent something that doesn't patent it seldom gets credit the person that patent it in their names in the earlier they get all the glory they get the glory they get the new attribution the reality is usually not always but usually are there is more to the story and it's in my experience it's in it is never safe to assume that the name of the patent is the person that actually invented the thing so and people do invent things in parallel that's a real thing and saying who did it first go is kind of a little bit ridiculous that the point is that we are where we are as a result of a lot of people's work and like it was great ideas so anyway at five people right that is nowhere near enough I know that this percussive go on for an infinite mum not infinite but it would eventually run out if it is a very big number so really really big anyway so if I leave anyone out you feel was pivotal in the creation of the computer programming or as a revolution then I apologise for free yell at me people do sometimes that's fine in a hands I guy got drawn somewhere so with those caveats arm on a jump in the caveats because it's such a big topic of what I put a boundary box on I'll be in trouble so I can talk about every programming language ever devised not have what note not happen again… Good feel free to wait long to eat at the notes or if you got your own pronoun and I'm just playing with messing with me again and I are a wet hair I would be afraid of our long list of every programming language ever devised really is you see the truth I started making a list and it scared me to so I stopped arm I just started doing a list of programming languages that I'd I programmed in in my lifetime and yet arm 138 and there are programs out there that are older than me that are programmed in staff I mean I know what COBOL is but I haven't actually written a line of code in COBOL arm I know other engineers that have and that the list would just go on and on so anyway go draw a line not doing that cover some of the basics some of the big names but that's it Alison can cover every single sub- method of program structure okay I'm not gonna start debating the evolution of object-oriented programming multithreaded programming anything like that on that's not I'm not interested in in in synchronisation a synchroniser asynchronous program that is exhilarating stuff John I know it is but this that's that is not part of the evolution of program that I want to cover because again I'd be here forever so I'm destroying a little bit this is your metre Vic's topic Vic trolling episodes and it is over this is turning into Lana gonna go right ahead is fine is your show as you are as you are it is now you take ownership of the right arm right I'll yeah now be afraid so okay so yes finally arm finally finally finally there were often disputes about who covered what so hopefully I'll try and provide both sides of the story and you can make up your own mind okay the very people that feel we make mistakes or get it wrong should feel very free to interact with us on Twitter and tell us about that if they wanted you know all they could distract if this briefly turn the head away talk to their loved one and realise I completely forgot about what John just said that made them so angry and they won't go back 30 seconds to reignite that rage that's cool you know goes and I gave where we start and you know what I absolutely have to do start with the computational machine it's called an abacus did you know you know that there is actually no definitive time at which anyone can say for certain when the abacus was created it's a long long long long long time ago right because it was people came with pebbles and groups in stopgap long time ago and let's be honest abacus is can only really count their accounting machine in a kit to say that their programmable is somewhat of a stretch you can't actually put a program into an hour because inhabit compute something by turning a handle pressing a button or blowing it or whatever you know just a it's not arm another little interesting bump along the road above positive bump though that I have to mention is the slide rule who doesn't love a slide rule have you use a slide rule Vic I've actually never use the slide rule have never seen a title after it was late and I have a have an idea of what they're about with everyone you are missing out I have my father slide rule we actually had one class in high school arm it was MSc which is extension mass with it you are encouraged to take ongoing engineering physics which is what I was hoping to do it at unit University safe arm did high school the slide rule and we have one lesson we did our two or three equations so we solve the the numbers using cycles so and I have my father slide rule from when he went to the University and is doing teaching and arm I think they're absolutely brilliant I looked them first time numbers everywhere and I'm like how the hell does this work and anyway so you interesting history are John Napier are his Scotsman night are 1617 actually he invented logarithms and it was the basis of logarithms because the female organs of is so-called and you can tell a kind of mathematic mathematician kind of weirdness that I've got I can't help it I do think logarithms accrual because you can multiply by adding and that's called it weird that it's actually true anyway so arm the slide rule was based on our Napier's foundation of our of logarithms so that's how slide rules rule and in our nine hours 1632 was the first slide rule are an hour still in use by quite famously by NASA in the 1960s during the develop of Zhengzhou Department of the Mercury the Gemini and the Apollo programs not everything by the time we got Apollo not everything was done with a slide rule but a lot of it was like the exams like early SR 71 Blackbird also a lot of its design are all the calculations not all of the a lot of calculation to be done using cycles so you know by the time we got to the mid-to-late 70s though you know most engineering shops and universities were switching to computers and calculators for the heavy calculated from the calculations so they may anyway technically slide Rosa computational device you program and input and gives your result so eager and I also have to have a quick mention to you had to our Mr Pascal yes thank you for Pascal but I prefer but I'm sorry mate your machine can only add and that's just too boring for me so get to a hat that it just added mate that's it anyway and I was not a listener is not possible to I think it safely assume that can safely assume this is true okay arm right so we have to do start in August and I am I say I said how's it is differently under talk about the people their contributions and then will commence in the technicalities between art between people so on start off with two first in the very first person the person that is widely considered to be the father of program computers is of course Charles Babbage and he was born on Boxing Day are in the 1791/26 December for those that don't other Boxing Day 26 December so is interesting and I doing research on these people a lot of people born in December they go popular month or rather nine months prior was a popular month against any art he was a mechanical engineer our English guy and Czar the funniest thing about Babbage II think that the insane thing is that many of his designs were never physically built was a in his lifetime they were physically built and it's like you had myself he had a lot of money for the difference engine to the two things you do the first one while I do more than that but there were two big ones that he was known for the difference engine and of which it had two full designs are first and second revision and the second design he did was something called the analytical engine which was a programmable our computer but these are computers like you would think of these are completely mechanical devices so the idea is that there are sets of wheels that you are put into a certain position and in a program the difference engine and the physical cranking and turning would then produce a result and because of the positioning of all the different dials and all the gears and interlocks and everything that's would perform the calculation and it seems crazy but using mechanical energy to do those calculations but he never finished he got some of the way through building the first revision any ability money he has had a falling out with the guy building it and said near Neff forget it so he was in use all instant second revision of the difference engine at that point anyway it wasn't until the late 20th century that they actually completely decided to build a complete functioning difference engine and the original design was built by multimillionaire and the other one was built are in England and both of the machines built to his specifications work perfectly it's just a built in a lifetime a is, like gum making you a bit of van Gogh psyche going through his whole life thinking as he was a horrible painter we had all sorts of in a mental issues with depression and no lost an ear through suspicious means the point is you know and and now he is considered to be an artistic genius you and Babbage was you I would say is quite in that quite that extreme certainly people recognise his work but he never built the analytical engine was the one that he is most remembered for in relation to programming and that's a guess the point of this episode and that is you can be here on that arm on which one the analytical engine cover is 1840 nos 1850 things and 52 I apologise the Ava gap so is the father may be interested to know that without buyback yet it does and the analytical engine are was basically designed to be program rather than using the verb the dials and everything that he had his original are difference engine but with using a punch card and punch cards were a quote unquote new idea at the time which will talk about punch cards a bit more shortly so the designs were brilliance okay but in essence the takeaway is poor Charles Babbage his ideas and concepts were well ahead of the time that he lived in without the expense of the manufacture for the computational power that they provided they were enormous but they were also the first truly program of the analytical engine was the first actual design that could work for a programmable computer and that is why Charles Babbage's contribution is so important truth to be told though that's his machines translated electronically arm arts don't bear a great resemblance to what we think of now is computers but they had the virtue of being the first designs that actually could work yet which is what makes contribution interesting so the next person to talk about is actually closely related Babbage and also hotly debated and that is of course Ada Lovelace now I Lovelace is not actually her name her name was Augusta Ada Byron and our she's are counters of Lovelace arm you after marriage and she came to be referred to as a Lovelace the truth is though that arm are Augusta Ada Byron R is the daughter of our Lord Byron the famous poet are also English and the thing is that she was born again December 10 December in 1815 so go almost 2 decades thereabouts after a run after Charles Babbage so bit younger at the time but she was a mathematician now obviously you being of the other of a better background could afford to be educated that some sort of person about this before and as she pointed out in that day and age you it was unusual there to be very many arm females are mathematicians so that it that in and of itself is notable specially considering that some have father was a poet is an interesting choice so in any case arm aid with them Ada's mathematician are and are things about the age of 19 she became very fascinated with Babbage's work the thing is she is widely considered to be the first person to have written a computer program so the first computer program and it's kind of aqua technically it was an algorithm but I would be properly attributed as being a program rate yeah but I mean it's propagate select let's explore that and it's I think it's sort of accurate but it's it's kinda close to the truth's part in what you said the party for other reasons so so essentially Babbage's notes about how the program is analytical engine well that let's face it didn't physically exist in either of their lifetimes let's say that wasn't really the best okay arm yet it was pretty shocking now he gave a seminar in the design is fine the blueprints were okay but how you programmed at the detail about how useful it could be what it could do for you our brokenness thing was pretty pretty light on so he gave a seminar in Italy that is machine and how you could program it and a young Italian engineer road up that lecture and in one of those crazy things I don't understand English guy gives presentation in Italy attain engineer right up in French are I don't know so anyway I may be some can explain to me why on earth that unusual combination came came into a came to be that there irrespective perhaps French was a more widely spoken language than English in Europe at that point it was possibly you possibly the reason Eris Pegasus Luigi elaborate that in yes so arm and that that sort of I didn't mention my name because that was the end of his contribution if so arm if in Corte Madera in a heap heap he took notes in the lecture okay and write up as a paper so that's no but it wasn't that paper the gain popularity arm because Babbage's friend Charles Wheatstone and for those some electrical engineers out there you adhere Charles Wheatstone at the same Wheatstone is famous for his involvement in what's become known as the Wheatstone bridge which you know I built during university and so on so not only that but you so are you those those people yet they they they some of the stuck together in I just like to say people still do collaborating our people experts in their fields tend to flock together a bit so many so Babbage is friends with Wheatstone and up Wheatstone commissioned Ada to translate the French paper into English but I didn't just translate she actually took the time to learn about the machine and she sat with Babbage extensively took nine months so the better part of the year for her to actually do the translation was a huge paper but what she did as she expanded considerably on the notes in the paper and very clearly discussed the uses the usefulness and what is the machine the analytical engine could be used for and future capabilities eventually would prove to be correct so it's a sort of thing that arm where Babbage I was got the feeling that Babbage was, like this is really cool idea we should do this endorsements one affords everything but it wasn't big on the execution and wasn't big on the selling whereas Ada was very good except training at and selling so the bit where there is a dispute though is over whether or not she actually wrote "the punch card program for the analytical engine are which I think are was there was a Fibonacci I think binomial anyway it there was arm and algorithm like USA and the problem is if you look at the correspondence are the letters that went back and forth between Ada and Babbage are Charles Babbage was it was it almost suggests that Charles Babbage wrote the algorithms and that Ada Lovelace actually created the program from those algorithms but at one point where he had attempted to assist her in creating the punch card our program I had made an error which I picked up on an Ada corrected his mistake so there is no question that she understood how the machine should be programmed and is no question that she she helped popularise it and she understood the value of the machine and help to explain it to the masses and is no question that that inspired a lot of people to become more involved are in computational machines which would then go on to become computers so dear also famously dismissed the idea of artificial intelligence that's yet well in arm yes on that note I like to talk about our first sponsor who does not write artificial intelligence software but some are software right is incredibly cool and that's many tracks now there are great software development company whose apps do many tricksters in the name could tell their apps include Butler chemo Leach desktop curtain time sink usher move name angler and which is in a which not which way am I going now the thing is that there is so much to talk about each of their apps I can't go and it's them here so it was the highlight four of them when you start with my personal favourite afternoon now moon makes it easy to move any of your windows to weather positions on the screen that you like halves corners and edges fractions of the 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that URL once again they've extended because they're awesome you can take advantage of a special discount off their very helpful apps exclusively for pragmatic listeners use the code pragmatic 25 that's pragmatic the word into five numbers in the discount code box and shopping cart and you receive 25% off this offer is only available to pragmatic business for a limited time because the show is going to end and so too will this offer to take advantage of it while you can do is only a few more weeks left thank you to many tricks once again the sponsoring the show arm for so long and and always being there for us thank you so much okay I mention punch cards on its time in his time that we are we talk more about punch cards July punch cards back I have actually never seen or used to attach the punch card you have missed out because I think I probably have the first time I saw a punch card I looked at it and I try to figure out what was I didn't know what was I speaking this thing up and had a little funny rectangular holes in it numbers down beside them like what the hell is this for it looked a bit like a library index card to me but it obviously wasn't armed because what is probably the probably a lot of young whippersnappers like me that if completely clueless about this one ugly with that excess quickly with what it's about the moment when I should keep in mind something like a standardised test answers she with the little square is that you shaded with a pencil you for a multiple choice except instead of shading it and they would punch the holes exactly but think you just said whippersnapper young whippersnapper like you may not have seen these things your two years older than me so AAA say this in reference to that the grand scheme of computer programming OJ well okay… Tell you how I came across them first okay when I was doing a university degree the University had a whole bunch of old antiquated stuff so it was old tech when I started uni I start my first university was in 1994 and I 93 gosh it was so long ago and I am 20+ years ago arm way back in the dreamtime and then are they had used that machine for at least 10 years so they were using that program punch card computers are up until the end of the 70s essentially anyway are as in my university was okay so little about history the punch card and the thing that is interesting is it comes back to something I was saying before about the first person to patent it gets a lot of the credit so if you read Wikipedia you will get are that the first person who panted the punch card was a guy called Herman Holler a and it was in 1884 and he was using it for the purposes of storing data for the U.S. Census Holler earth did not invent the punch card we know this because well our good friend Mr Charles Babbage designed machine that used punch cards in the analytical engine several decades before that so hollering did not invent the punch card not not only that Babbage also did not invent the punch card for anyone else that thinks that he did he didn't see the balance card so it is safe to say that Herman Holler it was the first petrol evening donor moving on so the problem I guess the history the punch card is that data the thing that annoys me is the difference between code and data okay and I realise that no matter how you slice it arm code is code as data arm but data isn't code you know it's kinda like a one directional Venn diagram information is sent because you could argue that a series of instructions about how a code should be executed can be interpreted as being a form of data right but if I have data that is simply representative of information that data does not therefore mean it is of it can be used as an executable program series of instructions so this is the problem that I've got with the distinction between wow this punch card stores program versus now this punch card stores data so is not really a punch card well the thing is that the patent was for storing data not programs so Herman Holler is thing was that it was about storing data for the census it was not about storing a program whereas Babbage is in an application was as a program but Babbage was not the first person to use it as a form of programming because we go back to our definition remember our definition of the beginning was programming is the act of instructing machine how to behave based on a reconfigurable set of instructions if it's a fixed set of instructions it's not programmable then it's not programming right if I decide designed machine to do one thing and one thing only it's not programmable it's custom machine can't devise important art to do to remember so if you want to be more pedantic or perhaps more thorough tensing thing about them when we go back to the jacquard loom have you heard that the jacquard loom have not in 1801 was the first actual working model of the jacquard loom and was young created by armed Josef Marie jacquard who was French and the jacquard loom punch card or punch cards were a series of punch punch cards funny enough and what they would do is you would feed them into his loom and that would determine the pattern that the loom the wheeling yes now it was not the first necessarily of its kind but it was the first and it was on a mass scale that could we as the truly complex patterns there were still machines before that used punch cards in one way or another but it is recognised as essentially the first mass manufacturing application using a punch card and that punch card and weaving pattern that is data okay it's not you could argue with it kinda is a programming kinda isn't but you know what I think it is a program because that lumen that weaving pattern on that loom depended upon the settings you change the settings in the program you change the end result therefore your programming that machine therefore that is an inspiration set it's on instructions that yes unique to that Calgary yes and we can get than the minute the whole uniqueness point so he is the next interesting thing that most people don't know is Mr Charles Babbage was a huge fan of this guy while we assume he was because you Deported of him on his wall you are surrounded by his jacquard loom punch cast so it's pretty clear that the looms punch cards were a direct influence on the analytical engine that Babbage created and that's where he got the inspiration to use punch cards for programming analytical engine okay so that's really cool is very core are in more modern parlance are of course in the IBM parlance are they came to be known as Justino punch cards and a group of punch cards rather like cards on the deck were called deck are which I sometimes wonder if that was an inspiration for round the name deck digital equipment corporation like as a your deck replaced dedicated to R&M way of property not still it's nice to think that Mame is that that that is not arm is not completely unreasonable I think it's it would because it was true not sure it is truth anyway that's okay Oliver online says that is not the bugle okay before we talk about our next arm big-name I think we need to go through some more detail about types of machines so let's talk about different kinds of machines like manufacturing equipment so the way I define manufacturing equipment can be programmed is like the loom rate doesn't have to be a loom I mean you can have program machines you can program your sorts of things medial to about advanced robotics that's all programmable that the machines that will be programmed to weld our different spots on a car as it is going on a production line or pick in place machines or CNC router machines that that that machine away from new material to create different designs you know all of those manufacturing equipment there all programmable and different points in history have used different methods of programming so that's a physical output from a ice I guess it's a physical input in a sense but it is a programmable input is more the point now other types of machines are purely for calculation and you've got two kinds of outputs you got a physical output from a calculation either printed on a piece of paper or ticket table you know whatever are always visually display and cause womenfolk focusing on the real basic staffing I calculation for the sake of calculation like he is that he is a polynomial to the factor of God knows what and here's the answer is 10.1 whatever or 10.10.1 was never funny point is that some yellow I guess I'm to our program machines those the ones I'm particularly gonna focus on traffic of how many other machines don't for those categories ensure this sum but those that does a big ones so in terms of computers in the 21st of the 20th century there are essentially two kinds there was what they referred to as the stored program digital computer and the other one is the program controlled computer and is a con abroad esoteric subcategories not something that arm mostly want me that terminology and is not commonly used but I guess the point is that you have to try and separate the kind of computers that they were the both computers that are very different in how they function a program so I stored program digital computer doesn't does what it says on the box the program can be input by many different methods bites it can be in some instances semiautomated but the key point is that the program is stored somehow in the computer's own internal memory and memory could be through multiple means it could be a mechanical memory it could be relay switch memory or it could be of a horse the arm you know it could be some ionic valves are all because it could be arm through these wonderful things called transistors to know and random access memory although technically random access memory is all those things that is mentioned are existed these days random access memory is meant in the parlance of silicon so so the probe the computer itself stores the program that it then executes so stored program digital computer as opposed to a program controlled computer where they are programmed by either setting a series of switches and dials like a Babbage difference engine or an analytical machine are all because you can arm insert patch leads to rout data arm you different control signals between different functional units and I also saw one of those I cannot analog computer summer will fit those analog computers and the other point is that you would literally patch if you want to gain block your patch with a with a with a lead from here to here and you would get 10 units of gain you incisively get city feedback resistors to do a voltage split above the bluff all the rubbish but in so that all form of programming because it's very labour-intensive and that's a problem and the labour are means every time you arrive program it takes minutes hours days weeks to set it up depending on how big the program is and how complicated it is and is a lot of room for error so those machines thankfully died because while they sucked but you know what they were still .7 the journey let's be honest they were a big step stored program digital computers that's worked at so I mentioned mechanical settings you could spend dials and wheels like mechanical wheels to a certain position you and what you what you do for example on in and now the Babbage system and you attain a crank how he literally return to handle and cranky cranky crank X number of spins and it rotates through all the different combinations to end up with a result I'm not going to how does it if you're interested in selecting the show notes go and read up all about it and is said that she did build some of his machines and is pretty damn cool but it's also enormous first computational power so it's not exactly fit your backpack and mail let's face it it really isn't all that powerful when you compare it to Molyneux a basic wristwatch yet that's okay are however in more recent times are using a tape or a card with prepunched started to set the input conditions that was far better because it reduced the setup time and if you could store it in a blazing storage method then obviously that's going to be a hell of a lot better because it just has to go to the ramp to get the that the code and execute a lease to put in somehow and remember keyboards for computers that had been there were no screens at this point none of that okay so arm while the first dark computers are the colossus which will talk about arm we talk about Mr cheering shortly arm if photo optically read a tape that had marks on it and that was used to set will position much more rapidly than increase the setup speed machine for every calculation cycle and arm I think you could call it a mass produced conveyor computer of its stake as they made 10 of them site your knee is a lot while the booming industry booming industry for the 1940 computers industry so yeah I was it was put popular" popular hours during the latter half of World War II are anyway so reading mechanisms of obvious they were all improved and everything moved towards optical or magnetic are inevitably though for human inputs are revived we eventually progressed to keyboards and in terms of saving programs in a beyond random access memory yea we might be out of your import program somehow and say the more efficiently than I tickertape the could get our or punch card to get could get folded spindles or mutilated as they would often handle in warning text do not fault Spindler mutilate which is to be of course what they would say on the on an envelope are for physical letter physical letters out there is that I do a relative crazy Daisy put a stamp on me putting a magic box make and a shop and some a doorstep on our side while this is crazy anyway so arm yes so the problem with all of these methods so sorry I forgot so arm I might talk magnetic tape drives disk drives then they involve the spinning planner hard drives EEPROM is EPROM's he squared from our random access memories and now cause flash memory being where it is at the bottom line is the oldest storing the program the whole idea of you type it in you savoured something in the computer records of later that hasn't changed in 100 years while in 100 years paid about 80 years pretty young since they first had stored code in just the method changes that's all so are the primary language the lawyers early machines though was custom was all semicustom was it was a sea was highly customised so if you do punch card that worked our society to take the work in the colossus it will rework in the colossus, were gaining else in a arm same the punch cards punch card program for a certain brand of computer will not work for a different one in eight there was no common standard there was no nothing basically well enough computers out there to demand it I guess that was the point when they became far only okay are you okay you could argue that the basic building blocks and and Gayton all gait and exclusive or gate they will existed but the representations were unique and not interchangeable I guess that's the point yet so I complained about this before and plc programming world because all the damn PLCs are all subtly different and so on and so forth and inability program was no different in their programs this program is well and I want my early frustrations I've have mentioned previously is entering a program using a custom programmer literally a box customised box with a numeric keypad and ABCD an entity on a new plug in the plc and your type and instruction and hit enter and get beat and it was a good beeper bad beeper badly would be would start again and once you finish you commit the code with a certain key sequence of was and they gave plc was program and are and that was that was like no screen it was just an audible beep and a flashlight and a and a keypad made out of the bulky is keyboarding imagine yellow, or 64 thinking about the keyboard back thickness so you out of the 20 same same physical dimensions pretty much acceptable psyche anyway them on hallmarked all the cookies had, 64 is now stuck mother 20 anyway arm I was now a II don't run not really your complaint that much I think the victory was fantastic and it inspired me to get into our into computers and programming a lot more say I was glad we were able to get to get anyway are so before we go any further I'd like to talk about a second sponsor and are that so by the way our John von Nyman's next so let is for problem solvers that is for the curious and the people that want a make things happen you can instantly stream thousands of courses crab by experts in the fields of business software web development audio graphics design and lots and lots more weight mentalist now I have enormous library of titles that you can choose from their new courses and every day to make sure their library is relevant and up-to-date is used 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was born in Hungary and that was on 28 December I all these people born in December they laid he later moved to America now he's been is like if you can contribute to computer science you had to be born in December okay I'm screwed in my area very slowly do here while we both screwed the go so computer science yet live without without Neo Hudson and Gigi contributions just we were born in the wrong month mammal can we say that we have not so he was a very prolific contributor to science and engineering technology and he is best known I think for his work on the Manhattan Project and the first hydrogen the arms however for the purposes of this discussion more interesting is contributions to the computer of one of his I think rather funny arm creations he is credited with creating the first self replicating computer program in 1949 that makes it the world's first computer virus yeah we are not sure if he should be proud of but they go arm this is the bit that I want to talk about though with with Mr von Nyman he began are writing and it is said that it became accidentally widely released it was the first draft report on the EV ED VAC and back that was in 1945 and it described computer architecture that is still in some small way is the basis of modern computers and is referred to as the von Nyman architecture now that specific client machine can be thought of the stored program digital computer it describes a common memory space that use with its use for storing both the program code and the data and a control unit and an ALU arithmetic logic unit those to compromise or what became known as a central processing unit CPU and that sits between the input to the machine and the output from machine now if you with me so far there is a problem it's actually based on the work of Mr J press Eckert and John William Moxley the essay pronounce it they were actually the inventors of the any act by the attached pronounced ENIAC computer and that was at the University of Pennsylvania and that was happening at that time now I guess the worst part is the unfinished draft paper invalidated that pending patent claims that two people are done the bulk of the work on that computer it's true that von Nyman was a consultant at that time however not clear how much involvement he had right I have no celebrated guy this I hope never mind that that is that is another whole discussion for another show staging deceivers on the final 313 also are its a bottom line is it's funny how names stick the associate was something and remember that was a first draft that wasn't even a formally completed finished report it was younger it was it was a draft now why would you circulate a draft paper I think it through the undersigned elegant you draw your own conclusions anyway so the architecture is also given birth to another arm another terminology that is thrown around and that's the von Nyman bottleneck and I kinda like the idea of bottleneck because the bottleneck is an idea that arm well if you got bowl the neck of the bottle was the part of the bottle that narrows towards the top towards the lid the exit point of an entry point of the bottle such that if it's got a larger base than the neck he turned upside down the liquid will or can only run out at the rate are of the minimum diameter of the neck and because as a liquid-liquid zone compressible's and a couple more pressure behind the faucet and casings try to be clever anyway so the bottleneck is no idea the idea is that something is restricted in its in the flow and and that of course is the open applicable to data so the data flow is restricted why well that design has a common bus that is used to fetch the instruction code and the data is in same memory area so you can't have simultaneous patch requests it's yellow fundamentally restricted and that's mainly the reason why we don't use the von Nyman architecture predominantly what we do use something called the Harvard architecture and that overcomes the bottleneck by separating the buses and that allow simultaneous re-functionality and in fact you will be really pedantic there's a it's called the modified Harvard architecture that is actually the most common structure are these days in a modern computer some people say of the von Nyman architecture still used in case memory and blah blah blindly okay FI is a small part of a small part of the computer but at the time it was a huge deal but I think too many people say our computer is now completely based on von Nyman's work note that not okay sorry arm was a big contribution absolutely wasn't his contribution specifically not sold maybe maybe not but irrespective if you're gonna more detail about each of those are architectural like the differences between Harvard modified Harvard feel free to there are lots of links and show notes arm no shorter information out there on the net because of course the net was predominantly written in its early days by computer geeks who found some interesting plenty to read yes to more people to talk about maybe heard of this dude's name is Alec maybe Alan Turing you think through some vague references maybe some vague references maybe I have always been curious about Turing because the Turing test had fascinated me from a very young age and the Eliza the artificial intelligence arm software also fascinated me from a very young age so I became aware of Turing almost before von Nyman certainly before Babbage Ada any others or Pascal think is probably definitely a little more well-known than those guys are Alan Turing was born on 23 June not December year anyway 1912 arm and he died that's why things didn't work out too well for this is look at it like that stepped up to the dam and he died because everyone dies that's not really a new story but he died with quote on quote from accidental cyanide poisoning now and he was only 16 days shy of his 42nd birthday now you may be thinking the first thought that comes through your mind gets a first of the comes through my mind how do you die from accidental cyanide poisoning considering cyanide is used as a suicide tool of choice for well this is a wet lead to believe the secret agents and you know was arsenic in Sinai right and because there is that that beautiful memorable arm a excerpt from our licence to kill 007 are when the Hong Kong narcotics guys busted by Yum are the drug kingpin are any are Sanchez and his delay walks in the air and flips it flips a tooth crunchers on and then he'd like these dead inside like five seconds and white foamy stuff comes out of his mouth is all very dramatic well how does one accidentally die from Sinai poisoning to help will get to that the minute but some anyway the recent recently there was a movie release called the imitation game and it used are and it was a portrayal of Turing's life and was but he was betrayed by armed Benedict Cumberbatch who is of arm famous from his betrayal of the modern Sherlock Caroline yet which you and here it is absent is absolutely amazing and brilliant and I love that show arm and he is also a star in the second Star Wars are so a Star Trek good God in each flat Star Trek into darkness I think was second depth of the reboot signalling the reboot yet and he played arm Khan and union song and did an absolutely amazing job of that as well is in and out a few other things as well also did as well not quite as well but still arm i.e. our have to admit that the movie in terms of factual accuracy could be considered to be woefully inaccurate in many details sites I've heard that Abyssinia will it start with the details words wrong are that relate to programming okay name of the machine that actually broke the German Enigma code was called the bomb as BO MBE are he contributed to its diploma but the first version you prove my guess you could call a prototype was actually called victory which is not like all the movie I was someone like Christopher forget anyway it was not those names so that Satan can't are the digital computer Turing invented was actually called the universal Turing machine but the first programmable digital computer was called arm Colossus which I mentioned previously that was actually built arm by his engineer Tommy Flowers so Turing didn't actually build machine it was based on some of his ideas yes but he didn't build it now rather Colossus consider program controlled computer contravention that previously but some of the reason that the Turing was spread so much as just because there are key elements in it arm that were ideas from his own machine that's a arm the accusations in the movie that he was a suspected Soviets by the end was complete BS in a but let's never let facts get in the way of a good story I guess so that future biographies out there of Turing are this links when the show notes that aspirin redone post I was released well before the movie then they rereleased it after the movie was released and said you know how you should buy this is the movie was based on this but it's like yeah well past the new cover not much else it's so one are so heavily that if you're interested now arm Turing died of supposedly arm accidental poisoning but the problem is of course that that was in what 1950 something is not like CSI was a big thing in case the 50 CSI there was no CSI Miami business CSI New York and they won't holidaying in UK and you didn't lend a hand out to their English friends with all their you know this is not so it was very badly investigated and some have said because of his arm sexual preferences are it was basically there are lots of people it is jump to conclusions and it was just not investigating he was mistreated I think there is definitely evidence that that was the case and that sort of discrimination was very, not just of Turing but in that a that era and frankly it still happens not the point of which that that that that they they subjected people to in 50 years ago but certainly is again now you know certain well back then it was still literally illegal yes things have changed things have come a long way so anyway rather focus on that let's talk about the supposed suicide now Turing showed no signs or rather none of the usual signs of someone who is intending to commit suicide and that of course the sort of evidence that was provided which is hardly definitive but it's something arm now he did keep Sinai's house but he used it because he was he was a tinkerer he was an experiment he liked to run experiments on all sorts of crazy things because it's just the sort of guy was he like to know experimenting on things and that's okay admittedly I like experimenting on things to but I don't carry cyanide my house so I know whenever so anyway he gets Sinai's house of the Somers chemical experiments but he was also known to be a little bit careless and are there was one time where it was so described that one of his experiments there was an across electrolysis experiment well he needed some power for that experiment and he got from a nearby light socket not kinda safe really you know although admittedly back then everything is all there is wiring there and there were hardly any circuit breakers if any in most houses at that point the cigarettes are too expensive are and is the other problem causes there are no earth leakage is no flicker so is this likely has a few Soviet overcurrent Bluff use here long enough to be easily long enough to kill you for a fuse blows so so he had an experiment room a lab room and it's unclear whether he was present in that room immediately prior to his death bites the room when they came to his house afterwards smelled of cyanide vapour it suggests that he was running an experiment prior to his death involving cyanide and cyanide had vaporised as part of that experiment now it's also likely based on the levels of Sinai found in his organs that the cyanide was inhaled rather than ingested so anything understand about that is that inhaled cyanide vapour takes a longer period and then he does if you directly ingested direct ingested and is directed just yet is not exactly instantaneous was pretty damn close but a lot of people present person but and the concentration cyanide of course but the truth is that inhaling it takes longer but it's kinda like you is still just as fatal now as many reason to doubt that it was suicide and and even murder theories have been kicked around you also like it was staged in a also unlikely if you stated you make a little bit more obvious and it was suicide you expected a bit more signs so you know it's just fishy so we'll never know I think that because there is clear as so poorly done anyway back to programming a full as an interesting aside and wise things that you like you said with surprise imitation game goes as the movie don't let the facts get in the way of a good story and don't let facts that can't be misinterpreted be bent to make it a better story whatever thank you Hollywood I Turing however was almost also famous for that test I mentioned the Turing test to mention what was so the standard interpretation of what a Turing test is is imagine three players call in place okay two of them are people one of them is computer or a computer running program and The concept is imagine two rooms or two doors and in 1/3 room you have the interrogator call them player see if you'd like player a sits behind one door player B sits behind the other door or room either way player see cannot see a or B the only interaction they have is through a computer terminal so through computer terminal computer system computer interface if the person is place he is unable to determine whether player a player B is the computer or is the person they can't pick than they are set then the computer said to have passed the Turing test of artificial intelligence such that the artificial intelligence can impersonate a human being accurately that's why was so fascinated with Aliza Aliza purported to be a thigh therapist of sorts someone you could talk to was a doctor's bait so I can remember anyway so very fascinating now another term that is associated with Turing is that the term Turing complete or Turing equivalent and I have to admit I know my computer science major I am an electrical engineer but with dumpling up company programming and a look at this term and I don't get I do I find to be very fluffy and is not particularly useful as a measurement of anything I totally get the artificial intelligence angle that makes sense a lot of his ideas about computation and random numbers and how random number theories can help you to wire our reach conclusions and in less time and all that is fascinating stuff very interesting young well some people yes but the point is that this whole idea of Turing complete just had become this one are obscene that the reference below don't know a lot about a cable look real quick what it is is the concept is that arm a real world general-purpose computer or computer language can approximately simulate the computational aspects of any other real world general-purpose computer or computer language Okay so that's what Turing complete means and is I don't see why that's a particularly useful measure of anything because if I can simulate another aspect of another computational device I don't see how that's particularly useful beyond modern virtualisation site was at a measure of exactly doesn't mean that the device is more usable it perhaps means it's more flexible maybe but I don't get it beyond that maybe someone can explain why that's a big deal because I don't get it anyway is not about sharing moving onto the next person and is about abstraction wrapped up this one was your request and I threw this one in at your request and is a lady by the name of Margaret Hamilton and this relates to NASA specifically initially obtained to NASA one of things that people don't I think don't appreciate is NASA's role in advancing armed computer technology because computational power meant that are the Apollo program in particular was able to far more advanced control then previous missions because of its the computational power that he had not just on board but also on the ground and the bottom line was that that involved riding a lot more software for a system that essentially relied on that software are to be absolutely reliable bullet-proof dependable because when you are that far away from earth there is no fallback so in the past you would only play that level of trust in a mechanical system or at very least an electrical system but not a control system based on software that was a newer idea considered to be quite risky time are and even now today yet sometimes it's considered risky permission and these people's lives depend upon it yet and anyone take that extension into aeroplanes today are mean for the longest time and even in most aeroplanes today are fly by wire systems have a hydraulic backup yam which is an electromechanical our survey replacements such as server backup system such that if the control system on the plane fails a computerised system fails then the pilots can always resort to a more traditional method of controlling a plane because remember you before hydraulics it was all done by wire enema plans not to be the VR flight surfaces the aerofoils became too large and heavy for the wire systems to you for a four part actually move them physically so that was when you how to use introduced the hydraulics and then hydraulics became accepted after a while. I played with the hydraulics is too dangerous what the hydraulics fails or log now the plane crashing control and that was a prevailing for a few decades people got over it began to trust hydraulics to the point which now hydraulics is you you your base of the yearly basis of fun you controlled get entry-level controllability of all else fails right and our and now this scepticism surrounds software so the other time will come when software for you becomes software that does the flying but the autopilot will be annexing side I trust your part in the windows and something that I trust the cameras at the front of the plane because there is no windows anymore okay so back to Margaret Hamilton so my rounds and was involved in NASA during the space race was in full swing during the 60s and because the computer systems made a lot of things more possible with less weight are the eight obviously though no one really written code it had to be that reliable and dependable are and anyway some eyebrows and is mathematician are from MIT and she led a team that went on to develop a lot of the key building blocks are for modern software engineering and software engineering the tennis office credited to her yes yes so are their team went on to creates are a few things that called the universal systems language which is 11 access and our development before the fact DBT FR which is different from MTBF for reliability got anyway NSR for those formal systems theory so they pioneered the concept of priority displays and software systems are where the software in an emergency can interrupt the user in a case be astronauts and they can rectify issues in real time now found that interesting because are the sorts of systems of those concepts already exist in our panel construction and design but that was back in the days when panels were annunciator lamps pushbuttons and our alarm strobes and allow sirens so some of the priorities outlined what is a siren Watson annunciator what's a flashing light what colour is the light where is it organised on the panel all that grouping priority displays existed previously that was not a new concept but what was new was how you handle pro displays in a software system so that was different and that was new totally uncharted territory and comes with I'd like to add a different set of challenges but I think her biggest contribution are in my opinion beyond all that was the way in which the code debugging was performed on a component level and an integration at all stages of code assembly into the final system extensive coasting simulation running through all conceivable's arm situations at a system level and they use that to identify any issues and fix them before the code was released in essence they were making code as bullet-proof as possible that level of thoroughness in the past I think had never really been attempted with code of that complexity and that the methodologies that they followed that they created that they will do that they developed during that time are with a blueprint for many that followed which is why you know she is considered to have you not as kind afraid of software engineering but doubt provided the basis for a lot of programming practices that have become common since then you she also pioneered a lot of concept in asynchronous software yes she did and I didn't want to go down the whole synchronous icing resting I exclude that beginning are but yes that M&S would note it is worth noting yes it is but in in any case so before we wrap this up was little bit about abstraction I hinted that this earlier on and is an abstraction has changed the landscape of programming and is the underlying problem is that each platform in the early days was unique and only actor in many ways is platform is still unique right it has a aspects so it consider the Babbage machines the beginning right custom set of wheels custom set of instructions there is no common instructions that you consider the Colossus again it has a unique instruction set a unique programming method early PLCs same thing analog computers same thing they were all unique though all low-volume they all suffer the same problem in order to use the machine you had to learn how to program that machine specifically only about that machine while the challenges and control system engineering is not learning how to program in FPD allow logic to any of that stuff sequential function charts yay or your structured text doesn't matter the point is that there all the subtle differences in all that subtly different ways of programming is not just the different ideas that you come up against is the fact that every plc just has to be subtly different well let's say on the computer platform I will learn Java while I can write Java annual work and compile and run on a multitude of different platforms in fact almost all of the major platforms in the world support Java so once you learn one language you truly don't have to worry about its interoperability on other platforms info for the most part not the same way have you felt that I have to wonder if PLCs I'm envious very envious of that of what Java gives you Java is not the only example it is the example that I've chosen but you know it it illustrates the point I think if you break a bad example sorry with the bad example I'm not holding out as a shining light of this the best probing names was ever written that's not what I mean what I mean is it is there are languages out that it is possible to abstract everything away to a point at which you can have a common language that works on a multitude of completely different devices are completely different inputs and outputs complete indifference control system are sorry CPUs operating systems are Intel architectures storage types is in the list is endless you know I can run Java on a laptop or desktop made by completely different companies are completely different CPUs different hardware configurations and different operating systems and work much the same day that's amazing that's what abstraction has done because I mean think about you've got Intel versus arm that is just one example there's others but that's a big ones completely different completely un-incompatible instruction sets and yet to program again you what you have to learn those instruction sets will know we abstract goes away an operating system sits on top of the act that it it creates a bunch of function calls you call those function calls it instructs the CPU what to do this the operating system got okay but all I've done is an asset iCal Navan operating system those operating systems and of themselves are also not compatible because the API function calls developed by Microsoft or Apple law or run anyone to build the Lennox distro right Red Hat the neck midpoint is everyone every operating system that is different so I can't write code that all compile is framework to work on our operating systems is a different set of API calls some functionality is available in some is not in others is not cross forbid something like Java is because web developers will argue that the whole point of the wet is it is the ultimate cross-platform asset of programming languages the ice anyway what I getting arm I guess I'm getting at another 132 bit and I'm 64 bit is not example arm so at a compiled code level then not compatible but if you abstract away from Gatt compile code level you go up alive level to the operating system you could argue there are little bit higher level if you well yes a higher level so go to a higher level and eventually you keep abstracting away you get to a level is truly cross-platform and that's a big deal because it means that you can learn to program one language and work in all so if you program a Colossus machine back in the 40s that's great that is completely nontransferable skill that is a unique to the 10 machines that they built Yahoo great if you did punch cards and letterhead program punch card for a can for specific brand of computer back in the 60s that's great that's not transferable either you can even transfer to a different kind of computer back in those days so I guess you could consider that Java is an example of the holy Grail of programming I can instruct this machine and a bunch of different machines completely differently constructed with the same instruction set to solve the same problem sounds like a dream right you've already ruined it by saying that Java sucks which is why lads and opinionated statement and a malpractice that I'm sure there's plenty that would disagree with cable you tell me what is it suck why do you think it's our well it it it was built on this premise that this often thought about that often times terms a lot of big stomachs colder rate wants run anywhere you and in some respects they they they did deliver on that you are gas but it is also pretty cumbersome and it's is vulnerable to a lot of security problems and issues and is just no grip okay on legality more generic than that that's very specific average American as I think Java is a good example of the problems and illustrates the problems is not the only Problem child out there are four mangers go it's is a good example so write his is my problem in terms of the advancement of computational devices and computers and programming standardising languages and language operations cripples the development of new ideas because you're restricting what the current feature set is and the near future and even sometimes the long-term future capabilities by whatever standards you set because if the material still work everywhere exactly so the input output methods of devices are constantly changing images that will have multiple tap with multitouch in the last few years it is Java truly capable of handling multitouch input or is it still based on the whole mouse clicking thing because people are obsessed with desktops I know the answer to that last time I checked Java and pinch design don't play so well together and I'm saying Flavius at all which it is better than it was and edited but you see my playwright input now here and they've made it work pretty pretty well for a free android going on most of those applications Robert ends up maybe Oliver's applications written in Java and honour I'm completely talking at the moment because I never done any drug development but no matter standing right across the board cross-platform sound yet I was as well until that Windows phone as well so arm young saying and another thing them about the about touch touch gestures on your death on your run trackpad you know the Apple operating system for example is a whole bunch of extra things you can do what will as I can you put in Java Walton will know that is not available on all machines I guess so you get this divergences were you doing yet you create a system that is stuck with it with a common set of input and output methods and that's the problem is you end up in a situation where you gotta have a keyboard you gotta have a mouse enabled if I don't want to have a mouse wealth of tapestry not have the cursor move to where I tapped in Albia tap will be a click left click why left click well because I said it's a left click on site okay so now we're doing is were taking a Paradyne that worked and where shoehorning it into something else work doesn't work so well yet now there's a reason the one hour and cups yet is reasonable in Apple that I was a touch interface it in a mouse cursor because there was no mouse but selling like Java yellow it's much slower to include that sort of technology anyway right standardisation by committee and if they adore if they had wanted to put iOS on on other people's machines and other services there are a lot of performances there that of partly what makes iOS and the iPhones in the iPad so great that they would have never been able to do absolutely right yes totally so standardisation by committee slows down evolution that's just a fact that's the way goes you get a whole bunch of parties they go out to dinner anything one company goes one direction of the company has a different direction and copy client one can't company copies the other one in so on and once this happens and the market stabilises it's time to go for a standard and try standardising people are doing delegate to late though otherwise you'll in the Viet VHS Betamax situation the problem I have in his his wide liked it to do some of the problem with arm the whole aspects of trying to standardise language and create a common language for platform and that is the drive to a common language and a truly hardware agnostic programming language cripples itself by the same mechanisms that drove its creation in the first place you can never win and so long as unless of course you will stop evolving if your option is on the stock try to make a better computer on the stock market making a better programming language well instantly you can suddenly succeed with a cross-platform fully abstracted truly generic programming language so long as you are involved in advance you can't and that's never gonna happen because everyone arises try something new just a little extra rubbish dad PHP every nanosecond anyway still new library so there will always be by virtue of these were probably 300 JavaScript framework created while we were why we recorded that's exactly there will always be by virtue of the above things there will always be many many more machine specific or platform specific languages then there I will ever be common truly cross-platform languages however I think it is a wonderful thing that Lennox and Java exist again I never have their issues but you know what I think it's wonderful that they exist because they provide guaranteed lowest common denominator for programming arm without any strings attached there mostly kinda sorta open source in past mostly kinda sorta and I run practically anything and just realise artists they were my pet peeves and that is lost, is nominated and while on the topic you know what lowest common denominator is so annoying it's it's an annoying idiom expression whatever he can recall because it doesn't mean what it means what people think it means you know like mathematically the numerator is the number the top of the fraction of nominators on the bottom and the least common denominator comes when you're adding two fractions are different denominator so our blossoms and I forget alive like 1/3 hour and a six is six or 13 11:45 in a art so the literal extension of the mathematical definition of a lowest common denominator is actually odds least common nominators the correct way to say that it's the smallest value at which to do similar items can be added that's not what I mean my so lost common nominators or people mean you know it's like yet this is being co-opted it has been yes it has been badly culled and so there is always a basic level of functionality that you can fall back on or this is been built with the majority of implementations in mind it's hard to see the connection between those concepts and the concept of the common interpretation of lowest common denominator were not younger adding anything together not live in remotely it's not what we're talking about and I think it's a great night and shown we think sure your I've reached the end of my notes and my tether telescope was Lucy recounts would add John GG and my writing and this podcast and others I've made a host of my psychic distortions in touch with what's the best way to make it phone me on Twitter at because someone that I don't forget the one is number one and if you like any feedback please use the feedback from the website that we also find shown a pragmatic don't forget that the show will be ending in a few weeks time and I have one last final vote was used to go to pragmatic and can vote on your favourite episodes of the show are now those on the final episode is anonymous if you want to name and email address to but I will be telling the result as an incentive those lovely awesome pragmatic things and make one and is taking photos and shining with a stuck is always interesting stickers and shirts to enter anyway are giving away free random injuries away what random entries that have submitted their favourite episodes please go ahead both sides want like what you don't like okay so what is good reason 33 Cornell Java risk-free trees go. There I personally like they many tricks for sponsoring pragmatic if you're looking for some acts of many many tricks remember specifically the URL many tricks or one more information about the amazingly pragmatic word to find the right sorry it's only for a limited time also sponsoring pragmatic anything at all you'd can help you out software design and development visit/pragmatic the serious minded you read something and so are you listening everybody and thanks as always thank you did you did did you enjoy your own topic I did was everything you hoped I believe the earlier you believe so it better be that we have to do a.k.a. a 20 hour podcast to really cover it all in detail they think we did a good job on important highlights I slaved away for hours for you but I think we did a good job on the important highlights another's point of it I'm a little disappointed that your brother Java into it but let that passage you'll have to let us been recorded now that are seriously though Java is the perfect example of a cross-platform abstraction you hated it's a good example for the idea yes for the idea I'm not a very bad implementation my point is can never do it this is my point you name a good truly put a cross-platform abstraction that is a programming language very often exactly that and that's why there can't be it it'll did defeats itself by virtue of the reason that you're trying to create it to know it'll always be Hamstra it'll always be behind it'll never embrace new technologies you know�
Duration 1 hour, 37 minutes and 41 seconds Direct Download

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Vic Hudson

Vic Hudson

Vic is the host of the App Story Podcast and is the developer behind Money Pilot for iOS.

John Chidgey

John Chidgey

John is an Electrical, Instrumentation and Control Systems Engineer, programmer, podcaster and runs TechDistortion and the Engineered Network. John has produced and appeared on many podcasts as well as Pragmatic.

What Happened to Mastodon? You can reach me on the Fediverse as explained here, just search for me on your instance of Mastodon, Misskey or Pleroma and you’ll be able to follow/remote follow me wherever you are!